Taylor Again

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I need to keep this out there- I can't go through watching Taylor out there again knowing the impact (bottle-neck) it creates in our prospect system and deficiency it creates in our third and fourth lines. It's not Taylor's fault- ofcourse he wants to play. The problem is the coach would actually play him, as evidenced last year. Question: if Taylor didn't play for the Lightning last year, where could he have played? or next year? Imagine this scenario: Perrin goes to Montreal for a 2 year 1.5 million and we sign Taylor for 1 yr for 600K. That's where I quit!

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Taylor surgery?

Taylor is still has a problem and that requires surgery, probably the easiest way for the Bolts to move on would be to tell him to not endanger himself any more and get the surgery he needs. At that point there is probably an injury pay-out and the contract is off the books- I hope- and that opens up the roster spot. i think that is why Jay is trying to keep Perrin as his 4th line center- that opens up more time for the 4th line versus having Taylor as a liability there. I really hope Tim takes the smart move and has his surgery- it would be better than trying to go thru the season and injure himself even more.

Taylor UFA

I believe Taylor is a UFA. I'm just worried about making the same mistakes this year as last. I don't think most realize the problems he creates!

Taylor under contract

Taylor is under contract for one more year. A 650k cap hit/500k salary.

The fact they brought in Gratton, been trying to sign Perrin, and mentioned Jones as a possibility (not to mention Tarnasky at center), probably means there is little expected from Taylor for next year. In other words, they don't expect much from him even if he does try to play.

I think you've made your point clear, Chuck, but there are bigger things to worry about than giving Tim Taylor 6-7 minutes of ice time a night.

Taylor Under Contract

Taylor is still under contract for one more season at 500k. The Lightning are on the hook for that contract, no matter which of the several scenarios play out:

A) Taylor has career ending surgery, which amounts to an early retirement.

B) Taylor decides to forego surgery, and attempt a cortisone supplemented season.

Either way, the Lightning on the hook for his salary. Now, with that said...

I think the combination of Gratton acquisition and the Karlsson re-signing clearly shows the organization is moving on beyond the Taylor era, so no need to get your panties in a wad.

Gratton is full-fledged 3rd line center and face-off guy. And the Bolts have a number of 4th line center options that do not include Blair Jones or Tim Taylor, namely any one of Karlsson, Nick Tarnasky, or Eric Perrin.

Now, that doesn't mean Taylor won't be on the roster come opening night. If Taylor *wants* to play another season, Feaster and Torts will oblige and carry him as a 13th forward. In that scenario, he'll see plenty of time in the pressbox and occasional injury fill-ins and helping on the practice roster. Taylor won't be wearing the "C" come opening night, as he oozes so much class that he will bow out in favor of one of the Three Amigos.

chuckie... you making much ado about nothing regarding Taylor.

Coach

It was a no-brainer to not play him last year; but he played. Why is that? 12-13 minutes in the playoffs? Answer Tort's, and yes he will be coaching this year; at least initially. I hope you're all correct; it certainly makes sense. So did not playing him last year! What is the status of Billy Barber? I'm not very comfortable with the coaching.

I read where Ramer will be landing on his feet in FLA; with Jacques Martin. Putting myself in his shoes, that would be like moving from Baghdad to Ft. Lauderdale. Fired? More like escaped!

Ramsay better off with the Panthers?

Hmmm....

Leaving a perennial playoff team that finally got him that long-eluded Cup ring in favor of a team that can't draw fans, hasn't won but 1 playoff game since their Cup run 11 years ago, hasn't made the playoffs in half a decade, hasn't finished above 4th place in the division in 5 seasons, and has a worse defensive corps than Tampa Bay.

Seems like you have it a little backwards.

So if he has surgery, long

So if he has surgery, long term IR will not remove his salary against the cap? And insurance wouldn't cover his salary?

Not really applicable

Long-term IR allowance gives a team permission to exceed the salary cap by the amount of the injured player's salary. It only kicks in when a team bumps up against the salary.

For the Lightning, the NHL salary cap is a non-issue, since ownership has decided to hold salary expenditures well below the NHL cap.

As far as insurance is concerned, those kinds of premiums are very expensive and usually only make sense financially for players will the largest contracts. For a 500k salary (almost league minimum), I would almost bet the farm that the Lightning are "self-insured" for Taylor and most of the sub-million dollar contracts. That's just my speculation, but I'd be stunned if they are paying some insurance company premiums against hockey injuries for a mere 500k salary. Richie's contract, or Marty, or Vinny? That's another story...

Our record? Who's faster?

They seem to be going up. We sure struggled with them, and now they have goaltending! I think our coach has run his term... Feds, Modin, Taylor, Andy, Denis, & Karlsson? Marty lobbying to put Karlsson in the line-up after 30+ in the pressbox watching Taylor? Come on! Who had any more to do with us beating New Jersey in game 2 than Feds?

I liked it more when Torts had a little less power.

Jacques sure did seem calm and confident during last year's stretch run.

Sorry

If you start defending the Panthers, I have to stop the conversation.

Cheers.

Careful...

I'll take Chad's comment one step further... keep defending the Panthers, and that'll get your IP banned.

defending the Panthers?

Concerned is a better term. They come to town 4 times each year. I love the Lightning, and want to see them take advantage of having the best offensive players in the league.

Lets not get into the whole

Lets not get into the whole "banning IPs" conversation. This isn't a fascist police state like HFBoards is. So long as you're not spewing copious profanities or trying to cell Cialis on the site, I'm fine with letting anyone express their viewpoints and letting them stand or fall on their own on merit.

I, personally, don't have a huge Tim Taylor hate-on. Is he a waste of a roster spot? Probably. But he isn't single handedly going to destroy the Lightning's chances of winning next season. Matter of fact, I doubt he'll have very little impact one way or the other.

And while I'm concerned about Tortorella's growing power, the fact is the man has a ring and has gotten this club into the playoffs four straight years. Jacques Martin doesn't have a ring and he hasn't sniffed the big dance since he went down to Miami. Why on earth Lightning fans should feel envious on the horrific joke that is the Panthers organization, I'll never know. Tomas Vokoun doesn't erase the fact they gave their franchise player away for next to nothing last season and set themselves back about a half decade in the process.

picking up the pieces

Kenan gained too much power, errored over ego (stubborness), and was let go. Martin to try and pick up the pieces. Now he is in Calgary. Torts....

Who will be left to pick up the pieces? How much farther will they let it go? I just hope the right people read this. Torts will land on his feet- he did a great job here! But now we need a change!

By changing one coach you may be able to change 20 players. I don't hear any disagreement from you!

Taylor is just the tip of the iceberg; but he is the captain. If he hasn't earned his icetime, then why does he play? What about the waiste of talent playing on the 'broomball line'?

Exactly what do you want to

Exactly what do you want to change in the players? You had three guys make Second Team NHL All-Star. Three. We need goaltending and depth. That falls on the GM not the coach. It's premature to try and throw Torts under the bus.

I think its a gm problem

I think its a gm problem too, and he doesn't stop doing stupid things. I didn't get the trade last year for Denis, nor do i understand the Gratton trade (2nd round pick for a player he could of got in free agency? (not the same player but a similar one)). Not to mention his inability to control payroll (how the hell he gave into giving Richards a 7.8 million contract is beyond me), he should of let Richards go RFA if he didn't accept a contract at 5.5 or under. IF he got offer sheets it would of entitled the lightning to quite a few first round draft picks (which would i think helped alot more than signing him for what they did). I also didn't quite understand why the lightning didn't trade next years first round pick to grab esposito or cheraponov as they fell, if minnesota could of traded up, the lightning had a chance too. Granted i am no GM, but this isn't rocket science and i don't find that too difficult either..

You lost all of your cred at

You lost all of your cred at "letting Richards go". Sorry. That would've been the end of any hope of this franchise re-ascending to elite status.

So you don't think 4 first

So you don't think 4 first round picks would of been worth more than Richards?

Unless one of those 4 first

Unless one of those 4 first rounders was a top-2 or top-3 pick, hell no. Franchise players don't grow on trees.

IT would be quite possible

IT would be quite possible in my mind (as most of the good teams were well near the cap, in past years when the salary cap wasn't around it would be a different story), plus the trade value of 4 first round picks should easily equal a top pick. And the question is, is Richards really a franchise player? Granted he is a good player, but i don't think he is a Franchise player tagged yet, i think its premature.

Brad Richards is a perennial

Brad Richards is a perennial league leader in assists and has never scored less than 62 points in a season and that was in his rookie on sophomore years playing on some awful teams. He's led this team in scoring 3 of the past 6 years and he has a Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP. If he isn't a franchise player, I don't know who is.

Guess my idea of a franchise

Guess my idea of a franchise players is different then yours. Sure Richards is a good player. But he isn't yet a GREAT player in my eyes and is consistently good but not consistently great, which would warrant a Franchise tag to me.

I guess winning MVP of the

I guess winning MVP of the Memorial Cup and the Stanley Cup is just not enough of a resume.

But he couldn't push his

But he couldn't push his team past the first round in 02 (maybe alittle to early for him in 02), 06 and 07.

Your picking and choosing

You're picking and choosing things for convenient arguments that aren't washing.

If Lecavalier is a franchise player... if St. Louis is a franchise player... why does only Richards get blamed in your book for not "pushing" his team onward?

Why does he get the blame when he's the one leading the team in playoff scoring the last THREE seasons? Did you watch Game 6 vs. the Devils when, with the series on the line, he stepped up more than anyone with both of TB's goals?

Do you think goaltending may have had something to do with the last two playoff experiences? Or inexperience in 03? Or how about the whole Cup tournament is so freaking difficult, you're not realizing how special 2004 really was?

If you're ultimately unhappy with the team losing, then fine, but let's not get crazy here.

There has been some questionable decisions. Fine.

But if you were GM and TB let Richards go for a hoard of first rounders that won't develop for 3-4 years (you're not getting Crosby every draft), then I guarantee there'd be no playoffs for you to complain about not getting very far in the last 2 years.

Um, yes, the Lightning did

Um, yes, the Lightning did beat the Caps in the first round in 02-03.

Damn yeah i'm screwed on

Damn yeah i'm screwed on this one i guess.

$7.8 is gonna seem reasonable

in about 2 1/2 weeks. With the cap moving to $51 - 52 million the new individual cap will be $10.2 - 10.4. Teams like Philly, NYR, Montreal and Detroit are gonna be compelled to spend to the cap. Several signings are likely to be in the $8 - $9 mil range. I bet Brad's salary moves into the bottom half of the top-ten. Which means that Vinny and Marty's salaries also begin to look much more reasonable. $20 million for those three talents may look like a bargain by the start of training camp. Remember, caps are usually designed for teams to protect them from themselves. Some of these teams are going to start throwing money at some questionable talents just because they have the bucks to spend. The money Jay has dropped on the big 4 hasn't been on questionable talent.

Really think Drury, Smyth,

Really think Drury, Smyth, and Briere will catch over 8 million?

Yes

It's not the talent of the player, but the rationale (or lack thereof) on the GM's part that feels pressed to win. The Yashin contract appeared to be an albatross from the get-go and in the end it did become a real drag to the Isles. The Blackhawks ended up overpaying both Cullimore and Aucoin. The Flyers and the Devils both ended up acquiring high priced dead weight. We didn't see it happen too much last season because the cap didn't bump as much.

One GM on July 1, is going to overpay to make a quick splash and the rest of those with money to spend will drive the market up for what's left.

what has been done?

If you were a player and Modin came back from the gold, but wasn't permitted to Stockholm with 5 (Five!) Red Wings, what would you think? So the players had a party for Freddie- no coaches allowed- and the team tanks after the all star break- what happened to the Wings?

Modin for Denis was "Tort's" trade. Norrena?

Feds had a tremendous game 2 in New Jersey. Why was he benched? and Taylor played?- Taylor had a defencive zone turnover in game 6 to allow the 3rd (game-winner). Not to mention his poor/ behind the play play
Taylor as captain? Does he epitomize our team? What about the guys watching from the pressbox?
Over playing the stars does not create a balanced team.
He started and yanked Denis 4 times in 8 days during the stretch. It just goes on and on...

Modin for Denis wasn't

Modin for Denis wasn't Torts' decision at all and the supposed friction between Modin and Torts over the Olympics celebration was so overblown.

Feds had a tremendous Game 2? 0 shots on goal is a tremendous game? Is that how far the expectations of Fedotenko had fallen?

BTW, Fedotenko played 16-18 minutes in every game he suited up for in the Devils series. Taylor never played over 14 and a half minutes. Your perception of Fedotenko getting all his ice time stolen by Tim Taylor is skewed.

Example

Evan can you please give me an example of a franchise player, within your criteria, who is the same age as Brad Richards? Of course this person should have a Stanley Cup Ring and an MVP trophy to go with it, because it is only fair to have equal points to measure who is and who is not a franchise player.

Guess i'm screwed on that

Guess i'm screwed on that one, age wise, giguere won the playoff mvp trophy back in 02, but lost in the finals (rare occurance there), but did win the cup this year. He is 30 though. In the past shoe ins would be Gretzky, but that is an easy one. Cam ward did it last year, he is alot younger. Leetch did it too, i believe younger than Richards. But i'm going to lose this argument anyway.

On a side note i just realized the canes are going to have to pay ward 8 million a year soon *laugh...

Look at the group

Evan- just look at who is in that group with Richie, that is a pretty select group= Leetch and Gretzky- wow. By the way you are welcome, and Ward is going to take up some serious cap space there.

Doing the Math

I missed Tuesday's paper, but on DC's Blog:

"...GM Jay Feaster said Taylor would rehab in Tampa, remain the team captain and has a roster spot waiting if and when his recovery was complete. Taylor said the vote of confidence gives him more incentive to come back and play."

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