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  #11  
Old 10-15-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by timothy View Post
Why is this hard to understand what I'm saying?

No, I think Sustr is a legit Top-4 d-prospect. Maybe even higher ceiling than than Top-4. As such, the experience being a Top-2 guy in Syracuse all season and hopefully making a deep playoff run with that responsibility -- learning to play top minutes ES, PK, and PP would be very valuable down the road for kid with upside.

Given that he is waiver exempt and has a high ceiling (so you want to invest heavily in best development for him) --- IF --- IF --- the TBL has a chance to add a Matt Niskanen or a Cody Franson or some other blueliner to the team, then I would send Sustr to Syracuse to make room for the acquisition instead of trying to pass Aulie or Barberio to Syracuse through waivers. At this point, I'd prefer to invest in the development of Sustr and not in Aulie or Barberio. And he's simply not going to get top minutes ES, PK and PP in Tampa.

Sustr is *not* going to win us any more games *this* season. He might very well in the future with full opportunity for development. I love Sustr. I think he's one of our top prospects. I think he has considerably higher upside than Gudas.

But I'm weary of repeating myself on this topic, so this will be my last explanation of my thoughts.
So you don't think he is better than Aulie or Barbeiro up here?

I agree with your reasoning. You are in the know much more than I am so I hope they are working on fixing our defense, but I have a lot less confidence at this point in Yzerman than most. But if he does, I agree I think Sustr would benefit a ton with top 2 minutes in the minors this year and he could push for a high spot next season (if not this season barring injuries).
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  #12  
Old 10-15-2013, 11:42 AM
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Why is this hard to understand what I'm saying?
I was not disagreeing with any of your posts or offering a valid argument against you... was simply asking what you thought of his ceiling vs the other defenseman we currently have. Which you did not currently state in your previous posts; do not know why you are getting defensive.

RE: Halo
why are you not confident in SY? his drafting style?(skill over grit?)

Based on every GM in the past...we have the best farm system to date with an outstanding outlook for the next 2-7years. I am no expert but it is shaping up where we can simply pick people from our farm team vs heavily relying on FA's.... Simply asking why?
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  #13  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:09 PM
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I was not disagreeing with any of your posts or offering a valid argument against you... was simply asking what you thought of his ceiling vs the other defenseman we currently have. Which you did not currently state in your previous posts; do not know why you are getting defensive.

RE: Halo
why are you not confident in SY? his drafting style?(skill over grit?)

Based on every GM in the past...we have the best farm system to date with an outstanding outlook for the next 2-7years. I am no expert but it is shaping up where we can simply pick people from our farm team vs heavily relying on FA's.... Simply asking why?
I haven't been a fan of his free agent signings for the most part. Wasn't big on Crombeen. Hated getting Carle. Not huge on Filpula (though he has done well so far). I hate how much we have given up to get two goalies in here because (it is looking like) he went after the wrong goalie originally. And I don't like that we have not addressed our lack of force on the blue line to keep things like what happened to Bishop from happening. I am just not a fan of the style he is pushing. Ironically, the Wings getting rid of their tough guys (aside from McCarty) is what pushed me away from them in the first place.
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  #14  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Scobo_24 View Post
I was not disagreeing with any of your posts or offering a valid argument against you... was simply asking what you thought of his ceiling vs the other defenseman we currently have. Which you did not currently state in your previous posts; do not know why you are getting defensive.
Fair enough.

I'm very high on Sustr. Very high. But that doesn't mean I want to push him into a premature role on the TBL blueline just because we have holes there.
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  #15  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BurnTHalO View Post
I haven't been a fan of his free agent signings for the most part. Wasn't big on Crombeen. Hated getting Carle. Not huge on Filpula (though he has done well so far). I hate how much we have given up to get two goalies in here because (it is looking like) he went after the wrong goalie originally. And I don't like that we have not addressed our lack of force on the blue line to keep things like what happened to Bishop from happening. I am just not a fan of the style he is pushing. Ironically, the Wings getting rid of their tough guys (aside from McCarty) is what pushed me away from them in the first place.
Like or not, Carle and Filppula were exactly the kind of FA signings the TBL needed at the time, and with the right coaching and system in place you are seeing these players excel. Carle was a stud dog in PHI. He, like a lot of our D, were lost trying to play Boucher's scheme. I hope you are seeing a difference from Carle (and Brewer) in Cooper's system. Now, the mistakes from the big minute eaters on all teams always are higher profile, but I think the difference is showing up already.

Re: Bishop, SFY is publicly on record as saying he made a mistake passing on Bishop for a 2nd rounder the first time, and he had to do *something* that summer when he acquired Lindback. You don't normally get 2nd chances, but he did and it cost a lot more. I think he'd be the first to admit (and he has) that he'd love a do-over on that one. Every GM makes mistakes. Some don't admit them and make the proactive moves to address you own mistakes. I think he has with both Boucher and Lindback. Hindsight is 20/20 and its easy to critique the past from the future. But there are plenty of GMs that just live with their mistakes and do nothing.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:38 PM
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Tim, in your opinion what would it take to obtain the contract for Franson or Niskanen? We can determine if its worth it - what are your thoughts on what it would take to obtain them? Probably wouldnt get them on the cheap...but help me understand the trade off that you would propose to obtain this kind of young defenseman with cheap contract?
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  #17  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BurnTHalO View Post
I agree with your reasoning. You are in the know much more than I am so I hope they are working on fixing our defense, but I have a lot less confidence at this point in Yzerman than most.
I have no idea or inside knowledge. Like everyone, I mostly just hope. I would have thought the cap reduction would have forced some teams to move some players, but so far it appears it hasn't.

I do think that the signing of Sustr as an FA made the drafting of Seth Jones optional to Yzerman and the organization. So, maybe it also made the acquisition of another blueliner via trade optional as well.

Like Chad and Pete, I believe we still need another guy who is not a prospect who can log Top-4 minutes on our blueline. But either those guys are not available (yet), or the organization doesn't believe that.

I think Sustr is reason we drafted Drouin (and Yzerman/Murray have basically said as much -- reading between the lines), and he may be the reason we haven't acquired Cody Franson either. But you never really know if those guys are "really" available and what their "cost to acquire" is. So, I try to give the benefit of the doubt unless word leaks out to the contrary.
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  #18  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
Tim, in your opinion what would it take to obtain the contract for Franson or Niskanen? We can determine if its worth it - what are your thoughts on what it would take to obtain them? Probably wouldnt get them on the cheap...but help me understand the trade off that you would propose to obtain this kind of young defenseman with cheap contract?
Well... those teams wouldn't be dumping those guys unless it would be a cap necessity. It'd be last resort. So, they'd be looking for prospects/picks to come back. Shero is one of the better GMs in the league, he's going to get value if he has to make that move.

My guess is they just aren't available. That TOR and PIT are trying to stay under the cap all season using LTIR and other means and hope the cap goes up next season.
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  #19  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:51 PM
Werewolf Werewolf is offline
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I don't see Sustr being a top 4d in our blue line in the short future (next 2 -3 years). He is not a Chara stay at home defender. Our defensive strategy is to pair up a stay at home defender with a pass moving defenseman. You can even see this at the AHL level where the pairings are: Sergeev/Mormina, Witkowski/Korobov, Taormina or Cote/Nesterov.

Our top two lines have two elite pass moving blue liners in Hedman (4 yrs left in contract) and Carle (5 years left in contract). Gudas & Salo (although they are sharp and intelligent passers) are deemed the stay at home defenders. Both Hedman and Carle are both tied up in long term contracts. Third line pairing is what Sustr will be here in Tampa - so a year in the AHL playing top line minutes wouldnt be as beneficial (edit: wouldnt be as beneficial as playing the role he will play next few years in the NHL).

Looks like he passed up Barberio in the role of pass moving defenseman. I was hoping Barberio would develop into a Kris Latang clone - but hopefully his hockey IQ at the NHL develops a bit faster than what we've seen. Especially since Barberio and Aulie are both RFAs. Aulie/Brewer could potentially be replaced by Witkowski and we are probably already seeing Sustr has replaced Barberio at their blue line role.

Last edited by Werewolf; 10-15-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-15-2013, 01:11 PM
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I do see a difference in Brewer. Honestly Carle doesn't look that different to me. Still does not hit, and to me a dman should always be able to clear the crease and at least defense his goalie by pushing. Carle not doing that is inexcusable to me, especially at his price. And without really watching much of him in Philly, I know some of my buddies who are Flyers fans were happy he left at that price tag, that a lot of his success tied in to Pronger, though they are drunken nuts, so I guess I can't say that for sure.

Filpula, eh, maybe. Don't like the amount we spent on him with the need I perceive at the blue line. But like I said, I don't personally like the moves he has made. He has spent big money on softer players, which is not the style I like.

I'll also add that Yzerman completely lost me when he said he wants fighting out of the sport. Don't care, judge me all you want.
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