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  #21  
Old 09-05-2013, 11:34 AM
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Exactly. You don't need to be 6'4" 235 to be a HOF power forward. Hart and Erne are perfectly capable of being effective power forwards once they're fully grown with the frames they have. I'm more concerned about their development as players than I am about their physical development.

Bottom line, though, it's a falsehood to say the Lightning haven't been trying to draft that need.
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  #22  
Old 09-05-2013, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
Exactly. You don't need to be 6'4" 235 to be a HOF power forward. Hart and Erne are perfectly capable of being effective power forwards once they're fully grown with the frames they have. I'm more concerned about their development as players than I am about their physical development.

Bottom line, though, it's a falsehood to say the Lightning haven't been trying to draft that need.
I don't like slapping labels on players because they mean different things to different people, but I like what little I've seen of Brian Hart (one game last year). Some obvious parallels to Alex Killorn: New England Prep School to Harvard and possibly a slow road to the Lightning. Similar body type and maybe playing style, not exactly destroying anyone, but not afraid to go to the dirty areas.
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  #23  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:13 PM
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Well, people need to understand the difference between a legitimate scoring line power forward and a lower line grit guy and an enforcer. I think the lines get blurred. Messier and Neely didn't run around beating people up all the time. They were big strong guys who created a lot of space for their linemates, though, nonetheless. You hope Hart and Erne develop and do the same.
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  #24  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:24 PM
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Hart was compared to Bill Guerin in his draft year. There's another guy who wasn't running around killing people, but he got his 30-30-60 and 125 PIMs most years.

Even a less physical guy like Freddy Modin who was a 25-25-50 and 50-60 PIMs a year guy created a lot of space for St. Louis over the years by physically occupying guys in and around the goal crease and doing work along the wall. Johan Franzen... somewhat similar type of player. These are the guys the Lightning are targeting. They want guys who are more like John LeClair or Modin or Franzen who legitimately help you win games even though they don't rip the faces off of guys.

Marian Hossa... who is the template for Panik... another prime example. Not a murderer but hard as hell to get off the puck and helps you win.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:42 PM
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Well, people need to understand the difference between a legitimate scoring line power forward and a lower line grit guy and an enforcer. I think the lines get blurred. Messier and Neely didn't run around beating people up all the time. They were big strong guys who created a lot of space for their linemates, though, nonetheless. You hope Hart and Erne develop and do the same.
Very very true. Case in point, Cam Neely. He was a mean, tough, S.O.B., and would take on anyone anytime- then the Bruins said, uh, hey, Cam....your a 50 goal scorer, so you can't go beating the shit out of guys ALL the time- got to pick your spots bro. So- thats what we need top six, is a guy, 1 guy, who can and will create room for his teammates on the ice, and in a pinch throw a beatin' on someone who needs it when neccessary...and we need a bottom six guy, just like Glass Joe Crombeen, who can actually win a decision or two...!
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  #26  
Old 09-06-2013, 04:05 AM
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He was never classified as a power forward though. Hart has been and he his size/weight is comparable to current power forwards in the league which is why he's drawing comparisons.
I never said Prusecell WAS a power forward, I said he was about the same size as Hart and WASN'T a power forward type.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
Well, people need to understand the difference between a legitimate scoring line power forward and a lower line grit guy and an enforcer. I think the lines get blurred. Messier and Neely didn't run around beating people up all the time. They were big strong guys who created a lot of space for their linemates, though, nonetheless. You hope Hart and Erne develop and do the same.
I know this'll surprise you, but some of the reasons WHY Neely and Messier were allowed to play that way are forgotten.

Miller, Byers, Nilan, McSorley, Brown, Kocur, and Simon. And, NO, they weren't all "goons".

Few power forwards, much like smaller forwards, have ever been successful without someone watching their backs.

It's high time the Lightning finally fill that gaping hole.
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  #28  
Old 09-06-2013, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
Hart was compared to Bill Guerin in his draft year. There's another guy who wasn't running around killing people, but he got his 30-30-60 and 125 PIMs most years.

Even a less physical guy like Freddy Modin who was a 25-25-50 and 50-60 PIMs a year guy created a lot of space for St. Louis over the years by physically occupying guys in and around the goal crease and doing work along the wall. Johan Franzen... somewhat similar type of player. These are the guys the Lightning are targeting. They want guys who are more like John LeClair or Modin or Franzen who legitimately help you win games even though they don't rip the faces off of guys.

Marian Hossa... who is the template for Panik... another prime example. Not a murderer but hard as hell to get off the puck and helps you win.
Guerin was a helluva hitter who wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty.

Again though, with Modin, he WASN'T a "power forward", he was a big guy playing forward, THAT's what separates them. LeClair wasn't afraid to get dirty either, but he had help on the Legion of Doom, so you couldn't pay attention to just one of them.

To me, power forwards are players that do it ALL. Fight, score, skate, and hit. The Lightning had one of those in Malone, but he's made out of peanut brittle.
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  #29  
Old 09-06-2013, 10:37 AM
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I think Martin St. Louis would disagree with you re: Modin.
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  #30  
Old 09-06-2013, 11:19 AM
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I think Martin St. Louis would disagree with you re: Modin.
It's a matter of perception. When I watched the games, he never threw his weight around, and THAT'S one of the attributes of a "power" forward.
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