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  #21  
Old 05-05-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
I find it interesting that you single out Europeans.

The problem is that the rich made their money in large part because of the educational, infrastructure improvements, tax code and other societal investments made by all taxpayers. That's great. No one is begrudging or hating on them for being successful. But to those who have been given much should be willing to give back a little more.

It's a bit simplistic to think that everyone can be rich. If everyone was rich who would be the maids in the hotels and the waiters in the restaurants? We want those folks to serve us, but if they were paid a living wage, we couldn't afford the meals and the hotels.

So you have a choice, either pay them more or have the government subsidize those occupations with food stamps and housing subsidies.

You can't have it both ways.
As they say, money can't buy you everything. There are many that are happy with what they have, and the love of their families. There are many that are happy to be able to provide a good life for their family knowing that if they teach their childdren right they too can stive to have a nice, happy, loving life.

And there are those that have everything they coould ever want, and then some, that live a miserable life.
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  #22  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by The Other Side View Post
I read one report that says several on wall street see the DOW going to 20,000 this year. The one point they made was the artifical cap on the rates by the Feds. Once the unemployment rate falls to 6.5% the Feds have said they will raise rate. Once that happens I look for all hell to break out with interest rates similar to the Jimmy Carter years.
DOW 20,000 I've not a clue - Strictly a technical guy here. Today's charts will tell tomorrows direction - but beyond a few days it is the proverbial crap shoot.

Too many peeps with the hand in the till and the machines will rule the roost in the end game without question.
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  #23  
Old 05-05-2013, 06:12 PM
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DOW 20,000 I've not a clue - Strictly a technical guy here. Today's charts will tell tomorrows direction - but beyond a few days it is the proverbial crap shoot.

Too many peeps with the hand in the till and the machines will rule the roost in the end game without question.
I'm with ya on that. I could not believe they would say the DOW would gain another 5,000. But I will admit that as long as the jobs numbers get better and the rates stays low who knows.
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  #24  
Old 05-05-2013, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The Other Side View Post
I read one report that says several on wall street see the DOW going to 20,000 this year. The one point they made was the artifical cap on the rates by the Feds. Once the unemployment rate falls to 6.5% the Feds have said they will raise rate. Once that happens I look for all hell to break out with interest rates similar to the Jimmy Carter years.
You will see higher interest rates, but nothing like what we saw in the Carter/Reagan years. Housing would be crushed. Bought my home in 1982, 15.5% FHA negative amortization loan. Sweet.

Big business likes high unemployment; labor is cheap, benefits becoming non-existent, and a feeling of truly being trapped by a lousy job. Not to mention automation of manual labor where ever possible.
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  #25  
Old 05-05-2013, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Flycoon View Post
You will see higher interest rates, but nothing like what we saw in the Carter/Reagan years. Housing would be crushed. Bought my home in 1982, 15.5% FHA negative amortization loan. Sweet.

Big business likes high unemployment; labor is cheap, benefits becoming non-existent, and a feeling of truly being trapped by a lousy job. Not to mention automation of manual labor where ever possible.
Same year I bought my first home and almost at the same rate.
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  #26  
Old 05-05-2013, 07:01 PM
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Bought my first house in December 1981, mortgage rate was 16 5/8ths percent, but certificate of deposit rates were near 20%...at the time, I worked for a bank in a rich section of Forest Hills, Queens, NY and the lines were out the door to buy CD's for 6 months-1 year...
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  #27  
Old 05-05-2013, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by goldenbolt View Post
Point Two - You brought knowledge to table and I was indicating that If you have that knowledge that you could make use of Protective Puts in the market. That is not for the generic public..... and not intended for their use.

We better be careful as this could lead to a conversation about the Black Scholes Model....... Helicopter Ben would like to join in on that one.. LMAO!!

All Good.
Agreed. Fair enough. Although I myself still don't dabble in options, despite understanding how they work. I prefer to set and forget... haven't changed my investment philosophy at all since Dubya was choking on pretzels
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  #28  
Old 05-05-2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by timothy View Post
There's a big difference between begrudging others and possessing a passion for justice. The source of begrudging comes from a heart of selfishness and jealous, which your wise woman rightly condemns and dismisses. However, don't mistake a passion some have for justice as begrudging -- a passion for justice comes from a heart of unselfishness and compassion for those mired in situations that prevent them *ever* having the opportunity to better themselves. Many folks operate in this simplistic view that if anyone and everyone just worked hard then they will somehow arrive at this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That's generally coming from folks who have started life already under favorable circumstances of a stable family life, financial stability, and an environment that allows persons to thrive. There are exceptions to the general, but they really are quite rare.

I think often times folks mistaken a passion for justice with begrudging and they really are two different things.
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Originally Posted by cromag View Post
A passion for justice is admirable, but taking what someone earns (or is born into), and giving it to others is hardly justice.

You would be hard pressed to show me a person in this country who is prevented from EVER having the opportunity to better themselves. Of course, some people have a much more difficult trial to get there, but that's what makes it so amazing and inspiring when they do. America is rife with these stories. One good example I stumbled on before reading this thread:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...lding-process/

Also, not everyone is going to arrive at the so called pot of gold no matter how hard you work, if that pot of gold is millions or billions of dollars. For most people though, working hard will give them that treasure at the end of the rainbow - being happy, healthy, and able to take care of yourself and/or your family.
Agree with both of these posts. It's not so simple. Hard work is highly correlated with success, but hard work in and of itself doesn't guarantee earning millions or moving up several "classes". I do think there is still more opportunity here than the many other places I've traveled, however.
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  #29  
Old 05-05-2013, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy View Post
Many folks operate in this simplistic view that if anyone and everyone just worked hard then they will somehow arrive at this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That's generally coming from folks who have started life already under favorable circumstances of a stable family life, financial stability, and an environment that allows persons to thrive. There are exceptions to the general, but they really are quite rare.
Excellent post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutznboltz View Post
Bought my first house in December 1981, mortgage rate was 16 5/8ths percent, but certificate of deposit rates were near 20%...at the time, I worked for a bank in a rich section of Forest Hills, Queens, NY and the lines were out the door to buy CD's for 6 months-1 year...
Wow, 20% on CD's.... now they don't even cover inflation.

I bought my place in 1999 at a rate of 7.5%.
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  #30  
Old 05-05-2013, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Flycoon View Post
You will see higher interest rates, but nothing like what we saw in the Carter/Reagan years. Housing would be crushed. Bought my home in 1982, 15.5% FHA negative amortization loan. Sweet.
Yup. "High" is relative here. The 80's were pretty nuts in that regard. Don't think that will ever happen again.

[/quote]Big business likes high unemployment; labor is cheap, benefits becoming non-existent, and a feeling of truly being trapped by a lousy job. Not to mention automation of manual labor where ever possible.[/quote]

It's definitely a great excuse for less ethical firms to cut jobs and slash / freeze benefits when they feel like they have all the leverage. Automation is just a continuous trend, though.
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