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  #11  
Old 05-05-2013, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by the_narrow_way View Post
What are you talking about? Why would anybody celebrate a poor economy? Based on your previous posts, I'm going to guess that your comment was some form of anti-liberal or anti-left jab. The fact of the matter is that people get upset at those who are raking in the $$$ when they in turn are getting shit upon by the financial world. When people are being treated fairly then they don't care that others are making money.
Don't think anyone's celebrating a poor economy or bringing politics into this... at least I'm not

I merely pointed out that the record highs that you see being reported are much less a function of a strong economy (and even more less anything Wall St. is explicitly doing) than a result of monetary policy and the unattractiveness of just about anything other than US equities. There's a sharp disconnect between the stock market and the overall economy.

The world's not going to end, nor is the country going to turn into an oligarchy, once the Fed eventually stops printing money and changes direction. It's just going to be interesting to see what happens, because it's a lot trickier to suck in the liquidity that the Fed has poured into the economy. I personally hope the US is growing at more than 2% by then.
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  #12  
Old 05-05-2013, 02:25 AM
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I have listened to many who have spoken the same tongue regarding GDP, Monetary Policy and the pending dooming inflation headed our way. That conversation started at the low of the markets and has continued since.
Most if not all of those conversations are based on a political view and/or tainted by a political view of the capitalist world is coming to an end. The reality is in the charts enjoy the ride and prepare for that correction. Protective puts are pretty cheap these days do make use of them.

Like I said, not a political view, more of an exploration of what might happen and an observation of facts Like the Lightning next year... I'm optimistic.

Sounds like you're suggesting you have more skill at timing / predicting the market and options trading than most... Mr. Vinik included. Maybe you should have managed his fund, then he'd have the capital to buy out Vinny and Teddy

But seriously... suggesting everyday investors make use of protective puts... what exactly is your rationale behind that???
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by njbolt12 View Post
Like I said, not a political view, more of an exploration of what might happen and an observation of facts Like the Lightning next year... I'm optimistic.

Sounds like you're suggesting you have more skill at timing / predicting the market and options trading than most... Mr. Vinik included. Maybe you should have managed his fund, then he'd have the capital to buy out Vinny and Teddy

[But seriously... suggesting everyday investors make use of protective puts... what exactly is your rationale behind that???
Point one better than a Hedge Fund Oh Pleeeeeze - not even 1/100 of the skill of Mr. Vinik.

Point Two - You brought knowledge to table and I was indicating that If you have that knowledge that you could make use of Protective Puts in the market. That is not for the generic public..... and not intended for their use.

We better be careful as this could lead to a conversation about the Black Scholes Model....... Helicopter Ben would like to join in on that one.. LMAO!!

All Good.
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by the_narrow_way View Post
The fact of the matter is that people get upset at those who are raking in the $$$ when they in turn are getting shit upon by the financial world. When people are being treated fairly then they don't care that others are making money.
Thanks for concisely articulating the problem. Someone must have made you believe life should be "fair", and that you're some "victim" getting "shit upon", and that was a disservice. What's wrong with each person growing up, moving out of their parents' basement, striking out on their own, playing the hand they're dealt instead of whining, standing on their own two feet and taking care of their own financial world? Isn't that better than glaring over at the other kid with more toys and jealously desiring to take what he has, as if they somehow deserve to get their hands on his stuff just because he has more? When Europeans first came here, this is what they did, and the Indians before them--there were no freebies. Wild idea: Start out not caring that others are making money, except to celebrate it, drop the petty jealousy, and do what you can to make your own (better hurry while it's still a quasi-free country). If you fail, there's a tax safety net. Stop hating rich people and strive to become one--they're the ones who have millions to donate to charity, so there's another safety net created by the goodness of people doing well for those who aren't. You want to be a contributor to that, rather than a taker. Pretty cool IMO

A wise woman once told me begrudging and resenting what other people have is a good way to guarantee the universe provides you none of it. I guarantee Mr. Vinik did not get where he is today financially by resenting that other people were successful and desiring that some outside force would just transfer it from them to him.
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2013, 11:00 AM
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Top Shelf, you just reinforced what I said. It's the lack of 'fairness' that drives people to anger. For an obvious example, look at what happened with the big banks and taxpayer bail-out money, or look at the state of the oil companies. The high-rollers cry and complain, they get hand-outs, and then they follow it up with record profits. Meanwhile, Average Joe is constantly bombarded with skyrocketing costs for insurance, food, clothing, and taxes. Meanwhile, even after paying more than before, he is getting less coverage, less food, poorly-made clothing, new tax assessments, and skimpier services. That's not my idea of fair.
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  #16  
Old 05-05-2013, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
A wise woman once told me begrudging and resenting what other people have is a good way to guarantee the universe provides you none of it. I guarantee Mr. Vinik did not get where he is today financially by resenting that other people were successful and desiring that some outside force would just transfer it from them to him.
There's a big difference between begrudging others and possessing a passion for justice. The source of begrudging comes from a heart of selfishness and jealous, which your wise woman rightly condemns and dismisses. However, don't mistake a passion some have for justice as begrudging -- a passion for justice comes from a heart of unselfishness and compassion for those mired in situations that prevent them *ever* having the opportunity to better themselves. Many folks operate in this simplistic view that if anyone and everyone just worked hard then they will somehow arrive at this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That's generally coming from folks who have started life already under favorable circumstances of a stable family life, financial stability, and an environment that allows persons to thrive. There are exceptions to the general, but they really are quite rare.

I think often times folks mistaken a passion for justice with begrudging and they really are two different things.
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  #17  
Old 05-05-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by timothy View Post
There's a big difference between begrudging others and possessing a passion for justice. The source of begrudging comes from a heart of selfishness and jealous, which your wise woman rightly condemns and dismisses. However, don't mistake a passion some have for justice as begrudging -- a passion for justice comes from a heart of unselfishness and compassion for those mired in situations that prevent them *ever* having the opportunity to better themselves. Many folks operate in this simplistic view that if anyone and everyone just worked hard then they will somehow arrive at this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That's generally coming from folks who have started life already under favorable circumstances of a stable family life, financial stability, and an environment that allows persons to thrive. There are exceptions to the general, but they really are quite rare.

I think often times folks mistaken a passion for justice with begrudging and they really are two different things.
A passion for justice is admirable, but taking what someone earns (or is born into), and giving it to others is hardly justice.

You would be hard pressed to show me a person in this country who is prevented from EVER having the opportunity to better themselves. Of course, some people have a much more difficult trial to get there, but that's what makes it so amazing and inspiring when they do. America is rife with these stories. One good example I stumbled on before reading this thread:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...lding-process/

Also, not everyone is going to arrive at the so called pot of gold no matter how hard you work, if that pot of gold is millions or billions of dollars. For most people though, working hard will give them that treasure at the end of the rainbow - being happy, healthy, and able to take care of yourself and/or your family.
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  #18  
Old 05-05-2013, 02:31 PM
aapbolt aapbolt is offline
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Thanks to Tim, The Narrow Way and Cromag for expressing what true liberalism is all about. The development of those who work hard, aspire to their definition of the good life, and live in a Just system. The big problem is the tendency towards oligarchy, as The Other Side pointed out, that is why a strong viable middle class is so important. We can ill afford a large concentration of wealth in the hands of few, that is why fair wages and reinvestment in the growth of your own business are so important rather than simply keeping wages artificially low and keeping it all for yourself. By the way, Roberto Michel who developed the Iron Law of Oligarchy started out as a communist and ended up a fascist working for Mussolini...he once said there was little difference between the two ideologies.
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  #19  
Old 05-05-2013, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
Thanks for concisely articulating the problem. Someone must have made you believe life should be "fair", and that you're some "victim" getting "shit upon", and that was a disservice. What's wrong with each person growing up, moving out of their parents' basement, striking out on their own, playing the hand they're dealt instead of whining, standing on their own two feet and taking care of their own financial world? Isn't that better than glaring over at the other kid with more toys and jealously desiring to take what he has, as if they somehow deserve to get their hands on his stuff just because he has more? When Europeans first came here, this is what they did, and the Indians before them--there were no freebies. Wild idea: Start out not caring that others are making money, except to celebrate it, drop the petty jealousy, and do what you can to make your own (better hurry while it's still a quasi-free country). If you fail, there's a tax safety net. Stop hating rich people and strive to become one--they're the ones who have millions to donate to charity, so there's another safety net created by the goodness of people doing well for those who aren't. You want to be a contributor to that, rather than a taker. Pretty cool IMO

A wise woman once told me begrudging and resenting what other people have is a good way to guarantee the universe provides you none of it. I guarantee Mr. Vinik did not get where he is today financially by resenting that other people were successful and desiring that some outside force would just transfer it from them to him.
I find it interesting that you single out Europeans.

The problem is that the rich made their money in large part because of the educational, infrastructure improvements, tax code and other societal investments made by all taxpayers. That's great. No one is begrudging or hating on them for being successful. But to those who have been given much should be willing to give back a little more.

It's a bit simplistic to think that everyone can be rich. If everyone was rich who would be the maids in the hotels and the waiters in the restaurants? We want those folks to serve us, but if they were paid a living wage, we couldn't afford the meals and the hotels.

So you have a choice, either pay them more or have the government subsidize those occupations with food stamps and housing subsidies.

You can't have it both ways.
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  #20  
Old 05-05-2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by goldenbolt View Post
Point one better than a Hedge Fund Oh Pleeeeeze - not even 1/100 of the skill of Mr. Vinik.

Point Two - You brought knowledge to table and I was indicating that If you have that knowledge that you could make use of Protective Puts in the market. That is not for the generic public..... and not intended for their use.

We better be careful as this could lead to a conversation about the Black Scholes Model....... Helicopter Ben would like to join in on that one.. LMAO!!

All Good.
I read one report that says several on wall street see the DOW going to 20,000 this year. The one point they made was the artifical cap on the rates by the Feds. Once the unemployment rate falls to 6.5% the Feds have said they will raise rate. Once that happens I look for all hell to break out with interest rates similar to the Jimmy Carter years.
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