Buyout discussion

[The Other Side]

Originally Posted by Mike

Maybe because he's shown a willingness to do that already?



Jeff Vinik is a spendthrift? Really? The same guy that forked out $45 million to renovate the Forum, pledged $2 million in donations over 5 years to a "Community Heroes" program and has bankrolled the increase in club salary commitments from $50 million in 2010-2011 (23rd-highest in league) to $60 million in 2011-2012 (15th-highest in league) and $64 million this season (10th-highest). WHAT A MISER!

Who in the hell called him a miser? Yes Mr. Vinik has spent millions here when he did not have to, I never said he didn't. And yes he has spent a ton of money on payroll. But Yzerman does have a budget he must follow. And if there is a certain player that could help this team to make a run I know the wallet would open. But we are not after that player. We are under the CAP and there is a reason for that as the CAP for 2013-2014 is going to be lower and we will be near the top there. So how the hell does Yzerman deal with that.

Some here think that we can just cut two from this team and pay out the 2/3rds of the contract and spend more. Mr. Vinik may have deep pockts but he spends very wisely.

[goldenbolt]

Originally Posted by The Other Side

Who in the hell called him a miser? Yes Mr. Vinik has spent millions here when he did not have to, I never said he didn't. And yes he has spent a ton of money on payroll. But Yzerman does have a budget he must follow. And if there is a certain player that could help this team to make a run I know the wallet would open. But we are not after that player. We are under the CAP and there is a reason for that as the CAP for 2013-2014 is going to be lower and we will be near the top there. So how the hell does Yzerman deal with that.

Some here think that we can just cut two from this team and pay out the 2/3rds of the contract and spend more. Mr. Vinik may have deep pockts but he spends very wisely.

The point is the relation to the cap hit. The cost of cutting a contract like #4 is 2.2mil per year and there is no cap hit on that number. (only using numbers). JV is an investor and hedge fund manager how he looks at this is strictly business dollars and cost to team. Remember when he took the team over this for him was a toy - Something he wanted for a very long time not something he was looking to make bucket's of money from. He if asked will make those difficult decisions if needed.
If you can't even field a team for next year then what do you do as an owner?
Where do you pare contract cost?

[The Other Side]

Originally Posted by goldenbolt

If you can't even field a team for next year then what do you do as an owner?
Where do you pare contract cost?

If you can not move those contracts by trade, you have to sit back with the team you have and hope your GM is smart enough to find the unknown gem.

The 2 buyouts that are in the CBA are nothing more than flushing money down the old crapper.

Under the CBA a buyout is spread out and part of the CAP hit. What I will call the 2 "special buyouts" are spread out but do not count against the CAP. Thus I do not see buying out one of our players who have a long term contract as, on paper, you have asked M. Vinik to use that same dollar amount twice for the length of the buyout.

I just don't see many owners using the buyouts.

[njbolt12]

Originally Posted by goldenbolt

The GM and owner have some real difficult decisions to make this coming summer. How do we compete next year in a much tougher division lineup with several players who are somewhat injury prone. The style of game they will need to play will be much more physical - the perimeter dance at the circles will not work. So if we want an occasional dipsy doodle goal to go Oh Wow that was great ..... we will have that with our talent. If we want to compete and go far in the division we need cap room to go get that talent.

Wow.

First of all, not sure if you've been watching, but Vinny has been one of the more physical forwards we have.

You seem set on buying out Vinny (because according to the most recent time you've moved the goalposts of your argument, only cap hit matters to Mr. Vinik), so please explain, realistically, how you fill the resulting hole in the lineup afterwards? I'd love to see how you make the team better when you consider the new contracts that would be involved and the assets you'd have to give up in trade for an established top six center (preferably with size, like you require). And no, suggesting something like "Malone for Lucic and Tavares for Aulie and a 3rd" doesn't quite fall under the realm of realistic.

[goldenbolt]

Originally Posted by njbolt12

Wow.

First of all, not sure if you've been watching, but Vinny has been one of the more physical forwards we have.

You seem set on buying out Vinny (because according to the most recent time you've moved the goalposts of your argument, only cap hit matters to Mr. Vinik), so please explain, realistically, how you fill the resulting hole in the lineup afterwards? I'd love to see how you make the team better when you consider the new contracts that would be involved and the assets you'd have to give up in trade for an established top six center (preferably with size, like you require). And no, suggesting something like "Malone for Lucic and Tavares for Aulie and a 3rd" doesn't quite fall under the realm of realistic.

"#4 one of the more physical forwards". Yes, that is true when he decides to play. Which at all too many games he is nowhere to be found. When he is injured and playing that physicality just goes poof. If you told me he played to that game type all the time it's a no brainer but he does not. Standing on the dot or the circle is not physical at all. Going to the front of the net 2 times a game is not physical.

I don't know who the free agents are this summer but I do know we are up against the cap. We have a total of 2.6 mil dollars left to sign at least 5 players. You put the numbers together how is that done? We need to re-sign or part company with Aulie, Gudas, Pouliot and Nacho they are not under contract list all for under 2.6 mil / 3.8 if Ohlund goes. Remember Ohlund is an injury buyout only 1/3 is useable and the CBA does not allow the buyout no cap hit on an injured player.

http://www.capgeek.com/lightning/cap-calculator/

That's the site go build a team that is not the bottom of the barrel for another run at the #1 pick. Ohlund is only partial I think 1/3 recoup of cap money because he is injured. So you can add another 1.2mil so your up to 3.8 mil in cap space available.

Of course that would also mean you have no money for anyone to fill in for any injuries as the year goes on and if you want a player or two at the deadline you will need to have money to sing them. Our current cap crunch has No Room left.

Mediocrity will not be acceptable next year that could literally kill the franchise.

I'd trade Malone, the dipsy queen percy, vinny only option is buyout to get the cap space.
Malone for a #2/#3 pick would be just fine - he only plays 55% of his games the last couple years and he too is often not seen on the ice much like Vinny.
Puff boy throws up more giveaways than party stickers at a political convention and the last time he threw a check he was checked into Tampa Bay hospital for a mental rehab appointment. Of course the player he hit said thank you for the massage I really needed that.

We may not like the options but those are what have been dealt to us. So how do you get the cap space we need?

So how does the team get to cap reality with a team that can at least compete for something other than the toilet bowl cup?

[njbolt12]

Focusing on the relevant points of your post, first, Ohlund's not getting bought out. He's done. He's not close to skating again. He's probably going to retire, and if he doesn't, look up how LTIR works. Capgeek actually tells you, I've been to that site before too.

It's relatively simple to put a roster together for next year that includes no major moves, qualifies RFAs for the near future, and uses Ohlund's LTIR relief.

What's a little bit more radical is buying out Vinny and figuring out how you're going to replace him. You didn't answer that question.

[timothy]

Yzerman doesn't have to sign a single player this summer. He's not losing any significant UFAs that he hasn't already "replaced" (Garon and Labrie).

Would I like for him to sign a top pair dman? Sure. But he doesn't have too. Not sure where you are getting the 5 players he has to sign, goldenbolt??

[Top Shelf]

6

Originally Posted by goldenbolt

I'd trade Malone, the dipsy queen percy, vinny only option is buyout to get the cap space.

Malone has an NMC and is not in demand due to frequent injury, Purcell just signed a 3-yr deal @ $4.5 million/yr and then performed near the top of the leader board, and paying Vinny millions to not play plus paying his (non-franchise-anchoring iconic fan favorite) replacement more millions to play seems essentially indefensible. Other than that...

[The Other Side]

Originally Posted by timothy

Yzerman doesn't have to sign a single player this summer. He's not losing any significant UFAs that he hasn't already "replaced" (Garon and Labrie).

Would I like for him to sign a top pair dman? Sure. But he doesn't have too. Not sure where you are getting the 5 players he has to sign, goldenbolt??

I agree with Tim.

I think we have to get the forwards to play a total, simple, game. This will take some of the pressure off the defense which helps the net out.

[goldenbolt]

Originally Posted by timothy

Yzerman doesn't have to sign a single player this summer. He's not losing any significant UFAs that he hasn't already "replaced" (Garon and Labrie).

Would I like for him to sign a top pair dman? Sure. But he doesn't have too. Not sure where you are getting the 5 players he has to sign, goldenbolt??

There are only 16 players signed excluding the goalies for the +61 million dollars. There are 5 'D' signed including Ohlund - He's done. You need at a minimum two more 'D' if you are going to play only six during the year. I doubt they go only with 6 'D' so you need 3 more defensive players to be signed.

There are only 11 offensive players signed for next year. The team usually has 13 on the squad with one sitting up in the press box.

This would give the team a total of 23 players including the two goalies. Now they could go with just 22 and 12 forwards that is possible.

Regardless if you sing 5 for minimum 800k lots of talent in that group I'm sure. You are at 4 mil Pouliot to resign is about the same as his last contract 1.8 mil. How the hell do you make those numbers work under the cap and have any room left for a mid season sign.

Something has to give or we have mediocrity and another shitty season.

http://www.capgeek.com/lightning/cap-calculator/

Those are the numbers.