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  #11  
Old 04-19-2013, 10:20 AM
uf1910 uf1910 is offline
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After the Getlaf deal the Vinny contract isn't quite the albatross it was before. Yes it goes until he's 40 or 41 but the salaries also dive at that time also. Besides, by then who knows where the salary cap level is. Vinny to me is not a buyout candidate simply b/c he is still a very good player playing a very important position that would be very hard to replace.

My vote on any potential buyout would be Ohlund (if he doesn't retire) and that's about it. Brewer and Malone have too much value to just hand them some $ and walk away.
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by uf1910 View Post
My vote on any potential buyout would be Ohlund (if he doesn't retire) and that's about it.
I don't think you can buy out a player who is LTIR.
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2013, 01:59 PM
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I don't think you can buy out a player who is LTIR.
Correct.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2013, 02:15 PM
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Problem on this board is that most seem t think that with a buyout Mr. Vinik will open up and spend more money. It seems he has given Mr. Yzerman a set budget that he must stay within. All a buyout will do is allow the GM to spend at 1/3 of the salary that is not going to waste while at the same time trying to fill that slot with a player that fits the system.

Me thinking we are asking for a lot.
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2013, 04:44 PM
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Vinny to me is not a buyout candidate simply b/c he is still a very good player playing a very important position that would be very hard to replace.
10 goals and 29 points in 35 games pro-rates to 23 goals and 68 points in an 82 game season, and about a third of his games were in a month plus span where he was dragging a broken foot around. I think if he's healthy, he flirts with a point a game at around 0.9 points a contest.

I'm happy to have him. Frankly, despite Marty's bloated assist numbers, I think healthy Vinny was the better of the two players this season, if you held a gun to my head and asked.
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  #16  
Old 04-19-2013, 09:18 PM
goldenbolt goldenbolt is offline
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
10 goals and 29 points in 35 games pro-rates to 23 goals and 68 points in an 82 game season, and about a third of his games were in a month plus span where he was dragging a broken foot around. I think if he's healthy, he flirts with a point a game at around 0.9 points a contest.

I'm happy to have him. Frankly, despite Marty's bloated assist numbers, I think healthy Vinny was the better of the two players this season, if you held a gun to my head and asked.
The question about #4 is the length of contract. He is due 7.5mil per year till he's about 40 that is a long time. It is an awful contract and he is in the period of time in his career that injuries will take longer to heal and I can't recall the last year that he played a full season.

Those numbers will not get better if anything they diminish in time.

Not a good contract the question is do you eat it now or wait another year to do the buyout. Hard questions for the GM and Owner.

There is a reason for the ability to buy out bad contracts - this is a prime example of one of those contracts.
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  #17  
Old 04-19-2013, 10:50 PM
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I agree.. If the guy can stay healthy for a full season he can still be a great asset to another run at the cup.
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2013, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by The Other Side View Post
Problem on this board is that most seem t think that with a buyout Mr. Vinik will open up and spend more money.
Maybe because he's shown a willingness to do that already?

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It seems he has given Mr. Yzerman a set budget that he must stay within.
Jeff Vinik is a spendthrift? Really? The same guy that forked out $45 million to renovate the Forum, pledged $2 million in donations over 5 years to a "Community Heroes" program and has bankrolled the increase in club salary commitments from $50 million in 2010-2011 (23rd-highest in league) to $60 million in 2011-2012 (15th-highest in league) and $64 million this season (10th-highest). WHAT A MISER!

Last edited by Mike; 04-20-2013 at 01:43 AM.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2013, 02:22 AM
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He is due 7.5mil per year till he's about 40 that is a long time.
That's incorrect. He is going to take up $7.5 million in cap space until he's about 40 but his actual salary drops each season over the final four years of his deal, from $10 million in 2015-2016 (age 35) to $8.5 million in 2016-2017 (age 36) to $4 million in 2017-2018 (age 37) to $1.5 million in 2018-2019 (age 38) to $1 million in 2019-2020 (age 39).

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It is an awful contract
Nobody has ever sung its praises but, in truth, it's not quite the albatross it is made out to be. The cap ceiling is going to drop to $64 million next season but TB allocating 12% of its available cap space to Vinny isn't uncharted territory for the club. Also, given that the cap ceiling is almost certain to rise over the course of this CBA, the % of cap space that Vinny's contract eats up is likely to fall a bit.

Quote:
I can't recall the last year that he played a full season.
2009-2010.

Vinny has played in 246 of the 290 games up to last one the other night over the last four seasons. In that same span, Ryan Malone has played in just 213 matches.

Is Vinny injury prone? Sure. Is he Ryan Malone? No.

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There is a reason for the ability to buy out bad contracts - this is a prime example of one of those contracts.
It'd be one thing if Vinny had gone the Scotty Gomez route and wasn't producing. But he hasn't. He hasn't hit less than 20 goals in a season since he was a rookie and he's on a pace to hit the mark again in this lockout-shortened season. Also, his current production (10 G, 19 A in 35 GP) this season prorates out to a full-season equivalent of 67 PTS. As Pete pointed out, we've seen an uptick in his points-per-game to a level that we haven't seen since his last fully-healthy season and, even then, we have to account for the fact that he played on a bum foot for a portion of this season before finally having to miss action.
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  #20  
Old 04-20-2013, 06:35 AM
goldenbolt goldenbolt is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike View Post
That's incorrect. He is going to take up $7.5 million in cap space until he's about 40 but his actual salary drops each season over the final four years of his deal, from $10 million in 2015-2016 (age 35) to $8.5 million in 2016-2017 (age 36) to $4 million in 2017-2018 (age 37) to $1.5 million in 2018-2019 (age 38) to $1 million in 2019-2020 (age 39).

Nobody has ever sung its praises but, in truth, it's not quite the albatross it is made out to be. The cap ceiling is going to drop to $64 million next season but TB allocating 12% of its available cap space to Vinny isn't uncharted territory for the club. Also, given that the cap ceiling is almost certain to rise over the course of this CBA, the % of cap space that Vinny's contract eats up is likely to fall a bit.


2009-2010.

Vinny has played in 246 of the 290 games up to last one the other night over the last four seasons. In that same span, Ryan Malone has played in just 213 matches.

Is Vinny injury prone? Sure. Is he Ryan Malone? No.


.
The Cap hit is the problem. Dollar's paid out are not the issue. I suspect the bargain basement price of the Team when bought had something to do with the terrible contracts. There was thought as to a possible need to buy out a contract. The point of these buyouts for the next two years is it gives the owner the ability to pay the money but not cost the team at the cap level.

The lightning have 18 players signed for next year http://www.capgeek.com/lightning/cap-calculator/ with a cap hit of 61.8 mil of the max 64.3 mil. We are shy two "D" and 1 Forward. Aulie and Gudas are both RFA say you get them for 800k each Pouliot is also a RFA current contract 1.8mil. You tell me how you make that all fit under the cap and leave room for mid-season pickups? You can't buyout Ohlund he falls under 'injury protection' and you only get a piece of that back for cap usage not all of the 3.5mil Do we really want to go into a year with aging vets #2, #4, #12, all prone to injuries some more than others with no cap space available? Not if your a GM who want's to keep the job. Think Jersey the year they signed Kovalchuck and how they played numerous games understaffed because they had no cap room to replace injured players.


No question #12 is injury prone and another bad contract but there is an out with his contract. Starting the close of this season he has a limited NMC clause. He must provide a list of twelve teams who he would take a trade too. I fully expect that will be looked at this summer. His cap hit is for 4.5mil per year with two more years left. We are only talking cap hit. Of course who do you find to replace him for the 25 - 30 games he will miss with injury.

The GM and owner have some real difficult decisions to make this coming summer. How do we compete next year in a much tougher division lineup with several players who are somewhat injury prone. The style of game they will need to play will be much more physical - the perimeter dance at the circles will not work. So if we want an occasional dipsy doodle goal to go Oh Wow that was great ..... we will have that with our talent. If we want to compete and go far in the division we need cap room to go get that talent.
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