BoltProspects Community Forums  

Go Back   BoltProspects Community Forums > Hockey Talk > Channelside

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-06-2014, 11:44 AM
Bolthed's Avatar
Bolthed Bolthed is offline
Guy Boucher's One-Three-One
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Gainesvegas!
Posts: 2,380
Default The Callahan Question - update 6 year/$34.8M

This deserves its own thread because we're going to debate this for months ...

Ryan Callahan asked for seven years at $7 million per and a no-trade clause from the Rangers, who rightly choked up their bagels and then got him down to about $6.5M per for an indeterminate number of years (no word on the NTC) before dealing him.

Yzerman said yesterday he hopes to re-sign Callahan, but no one thinks it'll be a simple as two sides liking each other. I expect Yzerman will make an offer that fits his plans for the Lightning, and it very well might not be enough to prevent Callahan from hitting free agency. If he signs an extension, we give the Rangers our 2015 second-round pick and get their 2015 seventh-rounder, so there is some benefit to Tampa Bay if he walks away.

Here are the positives: Callahan is just what the Lightning need right now (arguably more than another scorer like St. Louis). He's tough, he's relentless, he goes to the violent areas of the ice, he plays defense, he kills penalties, he holds teammates accountable. Basically, he thrives in the tight-checking, late-season and playoff games. He'll have 20 games to audition with the Bolts and then hopefully a deep playoff run.

Here are the negatives: He's not a great scorer. His career high in points is 54 (29G, 25 A) in 76 games in 2011-12. There's some potential there (as evidenced by a .80 PPG in 10-11), but he's not a naturally gifted passer or finisher. He's basically a 2nd/3rd line tweener. He's also not all that big at 5-foot-11, 190 pounds, so it's no surprise that he's struggled with a litany of injuries since 2010-11, which was just his third full season in the league.

My conclusion: It would be nice — just nice, not critical — to keep the soon-to-be 29-year-old whom we received in exchange for the soon-to-be 39-year-old scoring star/traitor. Callahan's contract demands were outrageous, even after he came down a bit. He's a good player and free agency typically requires an overpayment, but any team would be foolish to come close to what he is asking for. I sincerely hope the Lightning are not that team, but it's not my money. If Vinik is on board and Yzerman sees a long-term fit into our salary structure, I could live with a four-year deal for no more than $5 million per season and no NTC. ... But if that's all we offer, I would expect Callahan to test the waters of free agency. Hell, maybe he won't find a better deal and we can really stick it to the Rags by signing him as a UFA and keeping the picks! Or maybe the Rangers would stick it to us and bring Callahan back. In either case, St. Louis will retire to Connecticut in a few years and the Bolts should still be reaping some of the benefits of the trade return, so maybe this whole fiasco won't sting quite so much then.

Last edited by Bolthed; 03-06-2014 at 11:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-06-2014, 11:55 AM
Hoek's Avatar
Hoek Hoek is offline
Steven Stamkos' One Timer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 11,090
Default

I'll have to see how he auditions first. It'll be interesting to see how he does with more talent around him like Flip, Stammer, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-06-2014, 12:02 PM
Barlow01 Barlow01 is offline
John Tortorella's Binky
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: tampa
Posts: 600
Default

On trying to strike a deal with the Rangers indications are that Rangers were willing to go 6yr @ 6mil. He wanted 7 @ 7. He came down to 6yrs @ $6.25 according to McKenzie (I believe) yesterday and Rangers would not budge as is often the case with Sather.

I compare him in many ways to Filppula. Believe it or not Callahan's career PPG is just slightly higher (.56 vs .54) than Filpulla's. Both are defensively responsible but Callahan has more grit and would stand up a bit better in the playoff environment. Filpulla is a better playmaker no doubt but Ryan is a hitter and blocker. Ryan will also be a bit more of a vocal leader in the room. Different type of player to be sure but I think value expected will be similar to Val's so I'd probably be willing to go a bit more than Bolthed. Maybe something like $5.5m for 4 or max 5 years.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-06-2014, 12:04 PM
BurnTHalO's Avatar
BurnTHalO BurnTHalO is offline
Steve F**king Yzerman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 2,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoek View Post
I'll have to see how he auditions first. It'll be interesting to see how he does with more talent around him like Flip, Stammer, etc.
More talent? If he is with Stamkos, fair point. However, he was playing top line minutes with Richards and Kreider, lets not pretend he was stuck with 4th liners like Vinny used to be.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-06-2014, 12:05 PM
ChaseSpace's Avatar
ChaseSpace ChaseSpace is offline
Cooper's Law
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Williston, FL
Posts: 4,644
Default

MSL's caphit was $5.625million and he is a far better player than Cally. If Cally is resigned for a caphit equal to or higher than MSL's I will be upset with the deal.
__________________
Gudas Priest
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-06-2014, 12:05 PM
Bolthed's Avatar
Bolthed Bolthed is offline
Guy Boucher's One-Three-One
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Gainesvegas!
Posts: 2,380
Default

I haven't tried my hand at imagining line combos (yet), but I think if the Bolts want to maximize their assets then Cooper will at least try Callahan at LW with Stamkos and Purcell. That way we take full advantage of Callahan's short tryout to see if he can be a fit on the first line ... not to mention we'd also be boosting Purcell's numbers and trade value (in theory). Two birds, one line.

But I have to say that a fundamental part of Callahan's questionable future in Tampa Bay is that we have an all-around better and younger version of him in Alex Killorn. And with our future salary obligations, we can't afford to throw money around without a very carefully conceived plan.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-06-2014, 12:07 PM
Derek28 Derek28 is offline
Johnny Shortside
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,440
Default

One thing we have to remember is that Callahan's camp came down to about 6.3 million/per season but the Rangers would not budge off of 6 million/per. If this is indeed the case with the way the state income taxes is we can sign him at a smaller cap hit and he still banks more cash.

If his cap hit is 6 million he brings in 6 million in Florida
If his cap hit is 6 million he brings in $5,235,000 in New York

Technically we can sign him at a cap hit of 5.5 million and he'd be bringing in more money then the offer he had in New York.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-06-2014, 12:07 PM
BurnTHalO's Avatar
BurnTHalO BurnTHalO is offline
Steve F**king Yzerman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 2,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barlow01 View Post
On trying to strike a deal with the Rangers indications are that Rangers were willing to go 6yr @ 6mil. He wanted 7 @ 7. He came down to 6yrs @ $6.25 according to McKenzie (I believe) yesterday and Rangers would not budge as is often the case with Sather.

I compare him in many ways to Filppula. Believe it or not Callahan's career PPG is just slightly higher (.56 vs .54) than Filpulla's. Both are defensively responsible but Callahan has more grit and would stand up a bit better in the playoff environment. Filpulla is a better playmaker no doubt but Ryan is a hitter and blocker. Ryan will also be a bit more of a vocal leader in the room. Different type of player to be sure but I think value expected will be similar to Val's so I'd probably be willing to go a bit more than Bolthed. Maybe something like $5.5m for 4 or max 5 years.
Could be a fair comparisson. I really worry about the injuries with Callahan though, but if we got him down to that $5-$5.5 mark, it's much more livable for me I think. But part of it is we need to project out 2-3 years from now and see what role we think he is going to be playing. Is he still going to be a top 2 line forward with the kids coming up? If so, I would more than entertain his resigning. If not, there is no way you can stick that much money into a third liner. That is something for those with much better knowledge on prospects than me.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-06-2014, 12:14 PM
Bolthed's Avatar
Bolthed Bolthed is offline
Guy Boucher's One-Three-One
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Gainesvegas!
Posts: 2,380
Default

OK, let's clear the air about taxes. I'm a little frustrated to hear so many people (like Duemig) talking about this supposed windfall that comes with living in Florida. Is there a benefit? Yes. But NHL players pay taxes based not just on where they live but where they play. The bottom line is that they pay taxes all over the U.S. and Canada no matter where they live.

Duemig asked Yzerman about this yesterday and YZ said it's practically an afterthought when it comes to contract negotiation. Said it might be fourth on a list of financial considerations. Then Duemig turned right around and spouted a completely made-up figure that it could be worth as much as 30% more money for players to live here.

Yes, it matters for things like cost-of-living and buying houses. Yes, there is a benefit to not paying as much in state and city taxes. But make no mistake — they all pay taxes in every state and province that they visit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barlow01 View Post
On trying to strike a deal with the Rangers indications are that Rangers were willing to go 6yr @ 6mil. He wanted 7 @ 7. He came down to 6yrs @ $6.25 according to McKenzie (I believe) yesterday and Rangers would not budge as is often the case with Sather.

I compare him in many ways to Filppula. Believe it or not Callahan's career PPG is just slightly higher (.56 vs .54) than Filpulla's. Both are defensively responsible but Callahan has more grit and would stand up a bit better in the playoff environment. Filpulla is a better playmaker no doubt but Ryan is a hitter and blocker. Ryan will also be a bit more of a vocal leader in the room. Different type of player to be sure but I think value expected will be similar to Val's so I'd probably be willing to go a bit more than Bolthed. Maybe something like $5.5m for 4 or max 5 years.
I seriously question the high end of what you'd be willing to offer — five years at $5.5M per. I'd have strong reservations about that impacting our future salary structure, and I'd just hope Yzerman is careful about that.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-06-2014, 12:20 PM
Derek28 Derek28 is offline
Johnny Shortside
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolthed View Post
OK, let's clear the air about taxes. I'm a little frustrated to hear so many people (like Duemig) talking about this supposed windfall that comes with living in Florida. Is there a benefit? Yes. But NHL players pay taxes based not just on where they live but where they play. The bottom line is that they pay taxes all over the U.S. and Canada no matter where they live.

Duemig asked Yzerman about this yesterday and YZ said it's practically an afterthought when it comes to contract negotiation. Said it might be fourth on a list of financial considerations. Then Duemig turned right around and spouted a completely made-up figure that it could be worth as much as 30% more money for players to live here.

Yes, it matters for things like cost-of-living and buying houses. Yes, there is a benefit to not paying as much in state and city taxes. But make no mistake — they all pay taxes in every state and province that they visit.



I seriously question the high end of what you'd be willing to offer — five years at $5.5M per. I'd have strong reservations about that impacting our future salary structure, and I'd just hope Yzerman is careful about that.
While that may be true, you can't think that the 12.75 cumulative percentage taxed on sports contracts in New York City doesn't have any effect whatsoever. I've had a few baseball players that have told me that taxes are a big reason why they would rather play in Florida then a state like New York.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2008, BoltProspects.com. All Rights Reserved.