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  #14571  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:13 PM
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dannybolt dannybolt is offline
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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
Ya'll see this?

I'm sure I'm not the only person who sees the irony in recasting Trump, an attention hog who takes credit for anything and everything who perfectly personifies poor leadership, as Washington, who is pretty much the opposite of everything Trump has exhibited to date.

Oh, the bludgeoning irony.
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  #14572  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:20 PM
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RSchmitz RSchmitz is offline
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Originally Posted by dannybolt View Post
I'm sure I'm not the only person who sees the irony in recasting Trump, an attention hog who takes credit for anything and everything who perfectly personifies poor leadership, as Washington, who is pretty much the opposite of everything Trump has exhibited to date.

Oh, the bludgeoning irony.
The artist has a canvas a lot worse than this. Apparently he's a tea party guy. Can't help but laugh at these.

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  #14573  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:26 PM
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pete pete is offline
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Originally Posted by dannybolt View Post
I would think so, since OBLs first attempt in 1993 was also on the WTC. Suffice to say he wasn't aiming small.
Name me another terrorist attack in the history of mankind that was as dramatic as 9/11. My point is, if you accept my assertion that Gore may have been effective in heading off the 9/11 plot, I'm not sure there's anything else Al Qaeda could've done that would've been as devastatingly jarring to Western civilization. Take 9/11 away, and there probably is no "War on Terror" because terrorism would still be treated as a law enforcement issue internationally. Take 9/11 away and there is no DHS, no Patriot Act, etc. etc. The course of history changes dramatically without that trauma to the American psyche.

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You are doubling down on your assertion that because Trump is a racist, most, or all, of his supporters are. Maybe all of the Trump supporters you know are racists. Only one or two of the ones I know personally and professionally are. The vast majority are not. That's why I tend to stick to the anti-establishment narrative, rather than the "OMG they are all racist" simplistic narrative that Democrats like to trot out. Maybe I'm misinterpreting "wide swath". I also don't know what research you are referring to.
I saw Ezra Klein from Vox doing an interview the other day, and he pointed out some scholarly work that looked at "economic anxiety" among Trump voters in the Midwest. They analyzed before and after polling. While Obama was president, these voters were the most likely to say the economy was terrible and express dissatisfaction with the direction of the country. Two months after Trump's inauguration those same voters were polled again and they were the most intensely positive about the economy overnight, even though Trump hadn't been in office long enough for the economic fundamentals to change an iota. So what happened to these voters' "economic anxiety" that magically evaporated overnight? The conclusion was that there was thinly veiled racial resentment in this pool of voters and that "economic anxiety" was always just a red herring.

Don't believe it. See: Waiver. The man who was a hand wringing Chicken Little when Obama was president who now wants you to believe the economy is the greatest in the history of the universe even though the economic fundamentals are actually slightly weaker than they were under Obama. The man who thinks re-Tweeting white supremacists anti-Semitic memes is not a sign of bigotry, but saying that Catholics don't support serial philanderers is.

"Economic anxiety" in the Trump base is bullshit. Trump's appeal is pure tribalism with racial resentment as a key undertone. Does that mean every Trump supporter is a David Duke acolyte moonlighting as a Klansman? No. Racial resentment doesn't have to be overt to be a central underpinning of tribalistic behaviors.

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If all it was was voting against a southern white guy, Hillary would have won in 2008, not Obama.
This ignores the glaringly obvious reason why Hillary lost the 2008 primary: she voted for the Iraq War. Obama opposed it, and therefore cut the brightest distinction from Dubya's most unpopular policy among the Democratic primary electorate. If Hillary had voted against the Iraq War, she'd have won the 2008 primary in a walk. Hell, Obama probably wouldn't have even run against her.

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You are assuming that those are the only two items animating Republicans to vote for Trump?
Donald Trump doesn't rise to prominence as a political brand between 2008 and 2016 if he isn't the most famous and vociferous flogger of birtherism. If he had never advocated the long form birth certificate nonsense, he would've just been a bad reality TV star. That conspiracy theory was his entre to American political circles. True or false?

And would Trump have made it out of the Republican primary without claiming all Mexican immigrants were rapists and gang members and his over-simplistic assertion that he would "build the wall" and "make Mexico pay for it?" Like any fascist demagogue, Trump rose to power by demonizing the "other," be it a racial or religious minority. It really isn't that complex.

And to this day, what does Trump's base rate as their most important issue? It's not "economic anxiety". It's immigration. That's why Trump continues to play this base strategy which includes throwing the children of brown people in wire cages. That's why Trump is out there making this insane threat to shut down the government two months before the midterm election if he doesn't get his wall.

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If you don't know your opponent, it is impossible for you to devise a strategy to defeat him. I hope those steering Democratic fortunes don't suffer from the same penchant for broad brushing. I'd also like to note that there is a difference in people who voted for Trump, and those remaining in the Republican party after his governance over the past year and a half.
Sure there is. There's Trump's base and the chicken shits in the Republican Party who are scared to death to stand up to them, because they know they can't get out of a primary without their support.

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I won't pretend to know why China did what they did; however, you assume Gore would do whatever he wants with a stroke of the pen, damn all consequences. My experience is that self preservation is generally a politican's primary motivator, and I would think that doing what you suggest would have amounted to political suicide in the early 00s.
If Al Gore only cared about self preservation he would've never written Earth in the Balance. People said it was going to end his political career and it actually began his second act in political life.

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Nothing about the previous 20 years would lead one to believe that the US population was crying out for somebody to commit us to renewable energy. In fact, the last president who DID, was Jimmy Carter (solar panels on the White House), and the US (rightly or wrongly) had already roundly rejected that strain of Democratic leadership.
They didn't reject the Carter administration because of his advocacy for renewables. To this day, renewable energy polls as particularly popular and cross cuts all ends of the political spectrum. Some of my most conservative clients have said to me they'd love to stick solar panels on their buildings if they were affordable. Hell, I was in one of the reddest portions of the panhandle of Nebraska a few weeks back and you couldn't swing a cat without hitting a residential-scale wind turbine or a solar panel.

Gore was in a position, with the bulk buying power of the GSA at his disposal, to dramatically bend the cost curve of renewables downward overnight, which would've given the US solar industry a strong beachhead in the world marketplace a half decade before the Chinese came onto the scene.

Don't get me wrong, the right wing is fully capable of whipping itself into a frenzy over some of the dumbest shit possible, but I don't see the political liability to any politician overseeing a government running in the black who chooses to put renewable energy on government buildings.
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Last edited by pete; 08-01-2018 at 10:54 PM.
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  #14574  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:28 PM
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pete pete is offline
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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
The artist has a canvas a lot worse than this. Apparently he's a tea party guy. Can't help but laugh at these.
I'm sure Trump appreciates being painted about 30-40 lbs. lighter than he actually is.
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  #14575  
Old 08-02-2018, 12:09 AM
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Bolthed Bolthed is offline
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The Intercept wrote about a movie I saw recently called Sorry to Bother You. It was funny and entertaining and very thought-provoking. One of them that stuck with me (as a longtime journalist) was how completely taboo it is for the corporate media to report on anything at all pertaining to unions. This thought fits in nicely with the notion that our country has been done a grave disservice (on the same scale as the drumbeat toward the Iraq War) with the way it has coveted Trump and his opponents. I mean, look at the fuckin mouthbreathers in last night’s Tampa rally ... why is this nonsensical, utterly useless dreck still being broadcast? Anyway, read this: https://theintercept.com/2018/07/25/...w-boots-riley/

The media is complicit.
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  #14576  
Old 08-02-2018, 04:51 PM
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ZeykShade ZeykShade is offline
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Default More from Emma Vigeland on the Trump Nurem...Tampa Rally

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


In their own words. Hear the delusion. I hear these people speak and I think of a person who has bought the latest and greatest product only to find out that it is a lemon and they will defend their purchase in the face of facts and criticism because they feel that criticism of the product is an insult to them for having bought it.

If you still support him at this point, you're more complicit than the rest of us in this country's march toward fascism.
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  #14577  
Old 08-02-2018, 05:26 PM
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Sotnos Sotnos is offline
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Dear gawd, they're so frightening. I guess it's comforting that 90% of them appear to be over 60.

I'd argue that they themselves are fascists if they still support that moron.
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  #14578  
Old 08-02-2018, 07:36 PM
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The new Ron DeSantis ad is the cringiest thing that ever cringed. Don't they realize how much they look like brainwashed North Koreans?
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  #14579  
Old 08-02-2018, 09:11 PM
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ZeykShade ZeykShade is offline
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Default It can't get much worse than our government kidnapping kids...

Oh wait, it can.

https://www.propublica.org/article/w...ent=1533251171
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The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense! - Brian Cox
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  #14580  
Old 08-02-2018, 11:07 PM
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Default US Steel is opening new plants according to Trump

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-donald-trump/
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The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense! - Brian Cox
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