News of the Day II

[RSchmitz]

I've got a bunch of guns to sell if we ever decided to do a buyback.

[ZeykShade]

Originally Posted by Puckhead

So, using your logic, we ALL should be armed to the hilt—30 bullet clips to protect ourselves from somebody with the same ammo?? Naw, that isn’t The answer, or any answer to the question GP posed. Methinks you are playing the argument absurdam.. I simply offered a possible solution to the increasing carnage of “active shootings”, as catalogued on MSNBC today, where the fatalities per shooting have been increasing exponentially, since 2016. The “founding fathers” did not conceive of machine guns, nor “bump stocks, in thinking about “militias”..IMO, references to what the original framers intended or what it permits is fanciful at best. Limiting the available bullets per firearm is only ONE way we can mitigate the carnage...And given the present circumstances, there is no “stopping” it. Our politics do not nor will they permit an Australian solution. I wish it were so—I no longer own that shotgun, for all kinds of reasons. But if I DID want to “protect” my home, I’d have an 18” barreled shotgun. (‘Sawed off’) I’d go against a 30 mag 45 anyday with that shotgun.

Ok:

1) Reductio ad absurdum would be "Well, why doesn't everyone get grenade launchers and tactical nukes then?!"

2) DC v Heller found, using the logic I outlined in my post you had trouble with, that the 2nd Amendment protects and individual's right to possess a firearm (without having to be in an active militia) for the purposes of self-defense within the home and for other traditionally lawful purposes. So, if a firearm has a normal lawful and good use, it can be possessed by an individual. It also said that the right to bear arms was not unlimited and that it could be regulated.

3) This is just so if you're talking to actual right-wing gun nuts they can't dismiss you outright for knowing jack shit about firearms: While there are some firearms that use "clips" (Moon Clips on revolvers and Stripper Clips on SKS and some other rifles), the word you're looking for is "magazines" or "mags" for short. I don't care about this, but some crazy gun advocates just immediately dismiss anyone who uses the wrong nomenclature. It's stupid, but it does help to know the language if you're trying to discuss this.

4) This kinda goes along with #3 above. 18" barreled shotguns are NOT "sawed off". Claiming that they are would have you ridiculed were you discussing this with a real gun fanatic. Any shotgun with a barrel shorter than 18" (or overall length shorter than 26") is prohibited by the National Firearms Act. Any rifle that has a barrel shorter than 16" (or overall length shorter than 26") are prohibited under the Gun Control Act of 1968 unless a special dispensation from the ATF is applied for to permit the possession of an SBR(Short-Barreled Rifle). Your shotgun in your scenario would be great for home defense for you, but I know my wife can't control a 12ga. You still have to aim a shotgun as well. You're also immediately blind and deaf in home defense scenarios with a shotgun. Not that handguns/carbine rifles aren't loud or bright, but they're considerably easier to control recoil on for successive shots(pump shotguns and double barrels are not).

5) Hyperbole does no good. Crime is dropping in the U.S. and has been for decades, but the number of mass shootings (however you define them) is increasing. It is not, however, increasing exponentially. If it were, you could expect to see the 300 or so mass shootings we've had so far this year increase to 90,000 events next year. More on hyperbole, as someone who has been shot at, I can assure you that you would not want to have a shotgun in a fight against one assailant with a 30 round semi-automatic .45ACP(KRISS Vector) at anything outside of 10 yards. I bolded the part that makes semi-automatic carbines and handguns make sense. People looking to do you harm don't always come alone. Your double barrel shotty or pump gun can be the wrong tool in a real hurry.

[Puckhead]

For home defense, in the middle of the night and in the DARK, faced with a home invasion involving any number of “assailants”, I’ll still take a short barreled shotgun—vs a handgun. But again, I don’t have a firearm in my home—don’t feel I need one. Unfortunately, we are never going to rid this country of AR’s, or big clip revolvers (why in the fuck are you quibbling with me on “mags” or “clips”—you know exactly what I’m talking about).

Just like we outlaw machine guns and automtic rifles, we CAN regulate the available bullets in a “clip”. That’s one answer to GP’s question. What is yours??

[ZeykShade]

Originally Posted by Puckhead

For home defense, in the middle of the night and in the DARK, faced with a home invasion involving any number of “assailants”, I’ll still take a short barreled shotgun—vs a handgun. But again, I don’t have a firearm in my home—don’t feel I need one. Unfortunately, we are never going to rid this country of AR’s, or big clip revolvers (why in the fuck are you quibbling with me on “mags” or “clips”—you know exactly what I’m talking about).

Just like we outlaw machine guns and automtic rifles, we CAN regulate the available bullets in a “clip”. That’s one answer to GP’s question. What is yours??

I gave you my answer. Amend the US Constitution, repeal the 2nd Amendment, ban them all except for hunting rifles/shotguns. Bolt Action, Break Action, Pump Action, Single Action only.

There are already capacity restrictions. Fully automatic weapons are used in the commission of any crimes at an infinitesimally low rate.

I wasn't quibbling with you on your language. I do know what you're talking about. I was just trying to help you sound as if you knew what you're talking about should you discuss this with some right-wing gun nuts.

[BurnTHalO]

There is a lot I'd like done, but realalistically, I'd like a lot more regulation on licensing. Required state classes, reagular testing, med exams, etc. Licensing should be harder than a car. I also like the concept that a friend/family/law enforcement can flag a person to keep them from guns. Its law in CA and SHOULD have been used by the police there, and I know Kasich is pushing it in ohio, so that has some bipartisan support.

[RSchmitz]

There are too many loopholes and not enough enforcement. I was selling an old engagement ring on craigslist and was contacted by a gun/pawnshop owner. I am not interested in guns except for when I went hunting back as a teenager, but he offered me the rings weight in firearms and then some. I almost balked when he said all he needed was my drivers license number, but I looked it up and on private transactions, there are no background checks or any roadblocks.

I walked out with an AR 15, an old Kimber, a clay put shotgun, and a browning hunting rifle after about 5 minutes of knowing each others names. Crazy. I contacted some police friends and gun enthusiasts afterwards and they said if the deal happened in the shop(which it did), that it wouldn't be considered a private transaction, but that just seems like another easily overcome loophole.

There should be some responsibility on firearms dealers to be held accountable on making sure people understand the laws when they purchase guns.

[RSchmitz]

Originally Posted by BurnTHalO

There is a lot I'd like done, but realalistically, I'd like a lot more regulation on licensing. Required state classes, reagular testing, med exams, etc. Licensing should be harder than a car. I also like the concept that a friend/family/law enforcement can flag a person to keep them from guns. Its law in CA and SHOULD have been used by the police there, and I know Kasich is pushing it in ohio, so that has some bipartisan support.

Getting a CC license is harder than getting a drivers license, I believe purchasing a gun is way too easy though. The focus has been on licensing because almost all of the mass shooters had permits, but I think we can curb armed violence in general with better restrictions on purchases.

I've read a lot that a psych exam wouldn't catch many mass shooters. I agree with you though, it should be done anyways. I think it would deter a lot of them from trying for a CC if they might get caught

[ZeykShade]

https://news.gallup.com/poll/244658/...i-speaker.aspx

File this under: No Shit Sherlock

[LightningTdi]

Lawyers for Gillum, Nelson campaigns objected to noncitizen's vote being denied

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/law...e-being-denied

[ZeykShade]

Oh look it crawled back out from under its rock.