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  #11  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by goldenbolt View Post
I stand by my comment outside of #77 we have not drafted nor developed anyone of value in the organization on the "D" side of the team in the past 10 years.
I gave you 4, but now that you have expanded the period to 10 years, you can add Gudas. (By the way, Hedman was drafted 11 drafts ago). And, of course, we don’t know whether any defensemen drafted in the last 3 years will make the NHL.

Now you have added that the team also hasn’t developed anyone on the d side in 10 years. There you are way off. Cernak and Sergachev were both developed in the Lightning organization as neither played any significant time in the AHL or NHL before coming to the Lightning.
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
I gave you 4, but now that you have expanded the period to 10 years, you can add Gudas. (By the way, Hedman was drafted 11 drafts ago). And, of course, we don’t know whether any defensemen drafted in the last 3 years will make the NHL.

Now you have added that the team also hasn’t developed anyone on the d side in 10 years. There you are way off. Cernak and Sergachev were both developed in the Lightning organization as neither played any significant time in the AHL or NHL before coming to the Lightning.
Both players drafted and broken in by other teams. My point is we have not drafted a single outside of Hedman on our lines. I mentioned Gudas earlier, Cernak was Bishop King’s, Sergachev was Drouin Montreal.
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2019, 04:06 PM
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Both players drafted and broken in by other teams. My point is we have not drafted a single outside of Hedman on our lines. I mentioned Gudas earlier, Cernak was Bishop King’s, Sergachev was Drouin Montreal.
Lol, broken in. 4 total games in the system for sergachev and 0 for cernak is broken in?
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2019, 04:13 PM
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Great logic. The credit for players drafted by other teams that played a total of 4 games in the NHL Before coming to the Lightning accrue to the team that drafted them. However the Lightning doesn’t get credit for players they drafted that went to other teams.
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by goldenbolt View Post
Both players drafted and broken in by other teams. My point is we have not drafted a single outside of Hedman on our lines. I mentioned Gudas earlier, Cernak was Bishop King’s, Sergachev was Drouin Montreal.
I get what you are saying, we haven't drafted our own and developed them into quality NHL defenders. I think what everyone else is trying to point out is that it doesn't matter since the end result is the same, the Lightning absolutely get credit for developing Cernak and Sergachev.
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  #16  
Old 11-28-2019, 01:01 AM
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It can be easily argued that the Kings didn’t even know what they had in Cernak. Yzerman and his staff get full credit, because he publicly stated on the day we made the Bishop trade that Cernak would be an NHLer. By my recollection, no one else held that firm an opinion at that time. Cernak was still in junior. THAT is some remarkable scouting.

Sergachev had much more pedigree as a top-10 overall draft pick, but he too was in junior when we traded for him. I know a few Habs fans who were pissed off when that trade went down, but they also understood that Bergevin was over a barrel needing a scoring forward. They overpaid a bit in order to acquire a Francophone. I’ll echo others here by reminding you that 4 games at the end of a meaningless season along with some preseason action does not mean that Montreal had jack squat to do with his development. The kid put up 40 points as a rookie straight out of junior. That all credit to the Bolts.
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2019, 01:28 AM
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Matt Spencer was taken by us 44th overall in the 2015 draft. Who was taken one spot ahead of him in that draft? None other than Erik Cernak (43rd overall by the Kings). Makes me wonder if Cernak was the bolts intended target in that draft, but the Kings took him before the bolts could.
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2019, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Derek28 View Post
Matt Spencer was taken by us 44th overall in the 2015 draft. Who was taken one spot ahead of him in that draft? None other than Erik Cernak (43rd overall by the Kings). Makes me wonder if Cernak was the bolts intended target in that draft, but the Kings took him before the bolts could.
Murray who is the resident scouting genius has been here since the start of the 2010 season. Therefor not responsible for Hedman or Gudas so his "D" picks start in the June 2011 draft. His claim to fame - Koekkoe and DeAngelo that's all folks. Two #1 picks injured and a head case.

These are the "D" draft picks since 2009. I included the last couple of years for which we will not know the results till 2022 or so at best.
My point is outside of Hedman and Gudas we have gone pretty much bust. Nesterov, Koekkoe, Dotchin and possibly DeAngelo are players who played a couple games but the reality is they never 'developed' under our guidance to be something more than a 6/7 or PP specialist.

So where is this great "D" scouting coming from .....

2019 4th Maxwell Crozier
6th Quinn Schmiemann

2018 3rd Dmitry semykin
4th Alexander Green
7th Radim Salda

2017 1st Callan Foote
6th Nicklaus Perbix

2016 2nd Libor Hajek
6th Oleg Sousnov

2015 2nd Matthew Spencer
5th Ryan Zuhlsdorf

2014 1st Anthony Deangelo
2nd Dominik Masin
2nd Johnathan Mcleod
4th Ben Thomas

2013 No D Picks

2012 1st Slater Koekkoek
2nd Dylan Blujus
6th Jake Dotchin

2011 5th Nikita Nesterov

2010 3rd Brock Beukeboom
3rd Radko Gudas
3rd Adam Janosik
4th Geoffrey Schemitsch
7th Teigan Zahn

2009 1st Victor Hedman
7th Kirill Gotovets
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenbolt View Post
Murray who is the resident scouting genius has been here since the start of the 2010 season. Therefor not responsible for Hedman or Gudas so his "D" picks start in the June 2011 draft. His claim to fame - Koekkoe and DeAngelo that's all folks. Two #1 picks injured and a head case.

These are the "D" draft picks since 2009. I included the last couple of years for which we will not know the results till 2022 or so at best.
My point is outside of Hedman and Gudas we have gone pretty much bust. Nesterov, Koekkoe, Dotchin and possibly DeAngelo are players who played a couple games but the reality is they never 'developed' under our guidance to be something more than a 6/7 or PP specialist.

So where is this great "D" scouting coming from .....

2019 4th Maxwell Crozier
6th Quinn Schmiemann

2018 3rd Dmitry semykin
4th Alexander Green
7th Radim Salda

2017 1st Callan Foote
6th Nicklaus Perbix

2016 2nd Libor Hajek
6th Oleg Sousnov

2015 2nd Matthew Spencer
5th Ryan Zuhlsdorf

2014 1st Anthony Deangelo
2nd Dominik Masin
2nd Johnathan Mcleod
4th Ben Thomas

2013 No D Picks

2012 1st Slater Koekkoek
2nd Dylan Blujus
6th Jake Dotchin

2011 5th Nikita Nesterov

2010 3rd Brock Beukeboom
3rd Radko Gudas
3rd Adam Janosik
4th Geoffrey Schemitsch
7th Teigan Zahn

2009 1st Victor Hedman
7th Kirill Gotovets
Libor Hajek was a hit. Koekkoek is the elephant in the room, other than that pick the hits on D were average. Many here were upset when we took him over Forsberg. The thing is, at one point Koekkoek looked like a monster on the blue line and worthy of that pick, but suffered an injury(knee injury I believe) that killed his development and hurt his athleticism. He was leading the CHL in +/- and was playing over 30 minutes a game or something crazy until then.

I’m still impressed with his skill set
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  #20  
Old 11-30-2019, 10:10 AM
Kizman Kizman is offline
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My question is...how much of the draft comes from the scouts or does the GM have a vision he wants and does that basically run the draft?

So was Yzerman saying he wants a certain type of player and the scouts basically gave him the best available?

I didn't see a big emphasis on Defense or goalie... and the ones we went with earlier didn't work out...so, I feel that maybe with Cal Foote, they may of been looking to focus on D as they saw the organizational weakness and felt he was best available.
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