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  #19041  
Old 08-23-2019, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Flycoon View Post
From Vox:

"President Donald Trump repeatedly threatened to release ISIS fighters in Europe as a form of punishment for countries like Germany and France; said he’s strongly considering trying to change the Constitution by executive order (it doesn’t work that way); indicated he hasn’t ruled out trying to illegally serve more than two terms; rewrote history during comments about Russia’s expulsion from the G8 that framed the situation in the most pro-Kremlin manner possible; and, despite five draft deferments, joked about giving himself the Medal of Honor.

That was Wednesday. And that’s an incomplete list of all the outlandish stuff Trump said on that day alone."

Now tell me Republicans are loyal to the Constitution....
Someone please help me if I'm missing something about the ISIS fighter thing. From what I've read, Trump wants to return the ISIS fighters who are citizens of these other nations so that we don't have to hold on to them. However, the European nations are refusing to take them back because basically they would not be found guilty of any crimes, and they'd be free to go. To force the issue, Trump is threatening to simply release these guys since basically they aren't our problem since they aren't our citizens.

Considering that context, and the fact that countries like France and Germany have heavily criticized us for holding onto ISIS POW's, I'm surprisingly ok with the threat.
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  #19042  
Old 08-23-2019, 05:40 PM
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So you are ok with putting terrorists back on the street, not knowing if they will stay there or return to the USA?
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  #19043  
Old 08-23-2019, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
So you are ok with putting terrorists back on the street, not knowing if they will stay there or return to the USA?

Return to the USA? I don't think you understand the problem, go do a quick google search so you can see what the issue is with keeping them in Cuba.
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  #19044  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:51 AM
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The problem with these radicalized combatants is they inhabit a blind spot in how we've developed legal and military institutions to handle them. You can't just release an enemy combatant who fights for no country to their country and wash your hands of it. These are extra-dangerous people because not only are they clearly true-believers who've risked their lives for their cause in a war zone, but they're now fully trained in taking lives having participated in military action.

Still, they deserve due process as a basic human right, and this is where not having functional international institutions is a problem, and the W Bush administration's decision to basically burn down the UN in the rush into Iraq still has consequences. There's a vacuum of cooperative international bodies that might be able to administer solutions to a problem like this.
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  #19045  
Old 08-24-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
The problem with these radicalized combatants is they inhabit a blind spot in how we've developed legal and military institutions to handle them. You can't just release an enemy combatant who fights for no country to their country and wash your hands of it. These are extra-dangerous people because not only are they clearly true-believers who've risked their lives for their cause in a war zone, but they're now fully trained in taking lives having participated in military action.

Still, they deserve due process as a basic human right, and this is where not having functional international institutions is a problem, and the W Bush administration's decision to basically burn down the UN in the rush into Iraq still has consequences. There's a vacuum of cooperative international bodies that might be able to administer solutions to a problem like this.
This is why I have no problem with Trump threatening/bluffing to release ISIS to stop Germany and France from speaking from both sides of their mouth. Extremely hypocritical of them to condemn our actions on humanitarian grounds when there are no other alternatives. They won't take back their own citizens to give them due process.

Obama got heat for this too, there are no good solutions.
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  #19046  
Old 08-24-2019, 01:13 PM
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To which the international community can rightfully say: “We didn’t burn down the UN.”

It’s not talked about but HW Bush and the WWII generation had a faith in international institutions coming out of their experience from fighting in a real coalition to defeat fascism and aggression that had its high water mark in the first Iraq War. That his own son deuced on that model of cooperation remains one of the real head scratchers of this young century.
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  #19047  
Old 08-24-2019, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
To which the international community can rightfully say: “We didn’t burn down the UN.”

It’s not talked about but HW Bush and the WWII generation had a faith in international institutions coming out of their experience from fighting in a real coalition to defeat fascism and aggression that had its high water mark in the first Iraq War. That his own son deuced on that model of cooperation remains one of the real head scratchers of this young century.
If you want to account for the existence of meaningful international cooperation, you have to go into our constitution and make wholesale changes. If we aren't willing to do that, than blaming our involvement with the U.N. is a moot point. As much as I wish it so, our inefficient government style doesn't leave a lot of room to be an international leader, because our governmental branches are never on the same page.
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  #19048  
Old 08-24-2019, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
This is why I have no problem with Trump threatening/bluffing to release ISIS to stop Germany and France from speaking from both sides of their mouth. Extremely hypocritical of them to condemn our actions on humanitarian grounds when there are no other alternatives. They won't take back their own citizens to give them due process.

Obama got heat for this too, there are no good solutions.
My worry is he doesnt know what bluffing means.
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  #19049  
Old 08-24-2019, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnTHalO View Post
My worry is he doesnt know what bluffing means.
That's what makes the bluff effective.
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  #19050  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:50 PM
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Well, a "bluff" is a bluff, until it isn't. He changes his mind more often than a kindergartner with a 64 crayon box.
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