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  #19681  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:44 PM
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pete pete is offline
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You first mistake is to think of him as a "conservative voice." That implies he has principles. Justin Amash is a conservative. DubDub is just a blind tribal Republican partisan.
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  #19682  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
You first mistake is to think of him as a "conservative voice." That implies he has principles. Justin Amash is a conservative. DubDub is just a blind tribal Republican partisan.
True. WW simply parroted far right talking points; the sort of dreck you see/read on America One News or Newsmax. FOX is "fair and balanced" compared to those two.
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  #19683  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gobolts View Post
And yes, because I'm more liberal than conservative I came for self-gratification when you affirmed my views.
Well I have had my tailfeathers shot off more than once here because I voted for Trump and lean Right instead of Left.
Thanks for the courageous and sincere post gobolts.

That said, and I have asked this before with no response from our Liberal friends, what is a liberal view?
We all know the major differences, but, as a liberal, what are some of the conservative viewpoints that you could never ever support?
Are there liberal viewpoints that you as a liberal do not agree with, but overlook?

Is roughly half of the American population who are or lean either conservative (or independent) ....wrong?

Last edited by gphockey; 10-21-2019 at 02:41 PM.
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  #19684  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gphockey View Post
Well I have had my tailfeathers shot off more than once here because I voted for Trump and lean Right instead of Left.

Thanks for the couragous post gobolts.

That said, and I have asked this before with no response from our Liberal friends, what is a liberal looking for these days?

or maybe if you cannot supply that list, why would you never, and some here...ever, believe and support conservative views?
Cause I require facts and science in my views. You want me to believe the tax breaks were good, fine, show me how. The experts say that is wrong. Don't get me started on global warming/the environment. I think gun control is needed, but as the right has blocked any and all funding to studying the issue, I'm not sure how far it really needs to go. You want me to fear the immigrants, but nothing I have seen shows them to be any sort of a true threat (of course some are/can be, but saying "There's a bad one" does not make a trend). I don't believe a fetus is a person. That said, I completely understand this is NOT really a black and white science issue, and can see the other side. The one side I can't see is the people that put exceptions in place (rape, incest, etc.).

So, you want to know what I am looking for? I want us to lead the way on progressing as a society. I want to fix global warming and the environment for my kids. I want to figure out why we are seeing a large uptick in mass shootings and put plans in place to fix it. I'd love to see taxes set back to fix the income gap and maybe bring back a middle class. I don't think health care is a want, I think it is a need. The overarching theme of what I want? I want people who are academic experts in fields to inform our decisions as a society as opposed to blow hard morons who appear on the magic box in front of the couch.
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  #19685  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:12 PM
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I've championed plenty of conservative views and I usually get measured responses back. I feel like the conversations involving WW usually are arguments and no one is actually trying to be persuasive. Even if there is some real information, no one is listening.

Having said that, there are one or two people who appear out of the blue to take shots and then disappear. That's not cool.
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  #19686  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gphockey View Post
Well I have had my tailfeathers shot off more than once here because I voted for Trump and lean Right instead of Left.
Thanks for the courageous and sincere post gobolts.

That said, and I have asked this before with no response from our Liberal friends, what is a liberal view?
We all know the major differences, but, as a liberal, what are some of the conservative viewpoints that you could never ever support?
Are there liberal viewpoints that you as a liberal do not agree with, but overlook?

Is roughly half of the American population who are or lean either conservative (or independent) ....wrong?
Interesting. Multiple times I've respectfully tried to debate you only for you to abandon the debate and not respond to my response questions after I go to lengths to address yours. Seems like you like the idea of having an ideological debate more than actually having a debate.

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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
I've championed plenty of conservative views and I usually get measured responses back. I feel like the conversations involving WW usually are arguments and no one is actually trying to be persuasive. Even if there is some real information, no one is listening.
This. You get what you put into this board. Argue in good faith? You'll get the same courtesy returned.

With WW, there is never an attempt to meet minds, or good faith argumentation. Ever. Dude just shifts goal posts, changes the subject or tries to muddy the waters with other issues, no matter how tenuously attached to the point being argued. That's why he gets all the shit he gets. Literally more than a decade of that type of nonsense and most people around here just got tired of his bullshit.

I agree that this thread leans heavily left, but as RS noted, he's brought up plenty, I've brought my fair share, Hoek has argued for limited government and laissez faire economics. WW was far from the only one arguing for conservative positions.

All that said, now that Trump is in charge, it's kind of hard to pinpoint what is conservative anymore, as Republicans seem to be shitting in their hands when it comes to national security, economics (tariffs and trade wars), the deficit (obv), governmental overreach (Trump directly targeting private citizens and corporations for retribution), corruption (do I even need to bother listing the myriad corrupt practices) power concentration etc. All have been discarded in their rush to lick the boots of his lardness. The fact that a place like National Review, which used to be the intellectual underpinning of the conservative movement is coming off more and more disjointed and incomprehensible is evidence that conservatives aren't really sure what it is they themselves truly believe as the head of their party should be an anathema to them according to their purported traditional beliefs.
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  #19687  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:56 PM
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pete pete is offline
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The issue I have is that we're no longer in an era where the debates of the day are not ideological arguments over the role of government in a liberal democracy (liberal, as in, not a monarchy). It's not a progressive vs. conservative thing at this moment. Trumpism isn't conservatism. It's piggish, brutish fascism.

I could respect DubDub if he was a principled conservative. But, he's an unscrupulous water carrier for fascists.
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  #19688  
Old 10-22-2019, 11:37 AM
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I also disagree with the premise/accusation that other people started ad hominem attacks with WW “most of the time.” WTF? Maybe you’ve only been on this board since 2016. Maybe you’ve only been here for WW’s descent into Trump-loving madness, but that notion is just plain wrong. I’ve seen WW attack everyone, including people who don’t post regularly and were only asking innocent and reasonable questions in order to draw WW’s beliefs and principles into the sunshine. Anyone care to do a deep dive into who started calling who a puppet first??

Sorry. WW is gone because this isn’t his echo chamber. We all know where he is. It’s on right-wing and alt-right media. We’ve seen him parrot wacko Qanon conspiracy theories just as easily as garden variety Fox talking points. You want to know WHY he’s not here? It’s because he’s happy in his bubble. He never honestly engaged with any of us. Maybe ever!

Or maybe there’s an even simpler answer for why he’s gone: The Trump circus can no longer be defended. There’s nothing left for him to do. Why eat a massive plate of crow on a daily basis as we all watch the impeachment and possibly the removal of the clown he’s been defending vehemently and irrationally for the last four years?

This isn’t really complicated.
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  #19689  
Old 10-22-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolthed View Post
I also disagree with the premise/accusation that other people started ad hominem attacks with WW “most of the time.” WTF? Maybe you’ve only been on this board since 2016. Maybe you’ve only been here for WW’s descent into Trump-loving madness, but that notion is just plain wrong. I’ve seen WW attack everyone, including people who don’t post regularly and were only asking innocent and reasonable questions in order to draw WW’s beliefs and principles into the sunshine. Anyone care to do a deep dive into who started calling who a puppet first??

Sorry. WW is gone because this isn’t his echo chamber. We all know where he is. It’s on right-wing and alt-right media. We’ve seen him parrot wacko Qanon conspiracy theories just as easily as garden variety Fox talking points. You want to know WHY he’s not here? It’s because he’s happy in his bubble. He never honestly engaged with any of us. Maybe ever!

Or maybe there’s an even simpler answer for why he’s gone: The Trump circus can no longer be defended. There’s nothing left for him to do. Why eat a massive plate of crow on a daily basis as we all watch the impeachment and possibly the removal of the clown he’s been defending vehemently and irrationally for the last four years?

This isn’t really complicated.
This to the max.
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  #19690  
Old 10-22-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
I also disagree with the premise/accusation that other people started ad hominem attacks with WW “most of the time.” WTF? Maybe you’ve only been on this board since 2016. Maybe you’ve only been here for WW’s descent into Trump-loving madness, but that notion is just plain wrong. I’ve seen WW attack everyone, including people who don’t post regularly and were only asking innocent and reasonable questions in order to draw WW’s beliefs and principles into the sunshine. Anyone care to do a deep dive into who started calling who a puppet first??
Facts. I stopped giving a damn once I saw the posts equating kidnapping and trafficking with summer camp, dismissing outright child abuse and irreparable trauma as "shrug, they'll get over it, it's not so bad."

Never had to administer a colonoscopy via boot, though, unlike the other guy.
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