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  #17021  
Old 03-23-2019, 03:18 PM
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pete pete is offline
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Originally Posted by Flycoon View Post
Warren is my choice at this point. That said, I’ll vote for whichever D is on the ballot.
She's been very impressive thus far putting a lot of realistic detail behind her vision. Plenty of time for the others to catch up, but she's set the intellectual bar high early on for the field. One of the big questions with her, though, is whether you want to hear about "Pocahantas" replacing "but her e-mails" in the media's thirst to create horserace "scandal" equivalency for an entire election cycle.

She's added a proposal for universal child care to the national discourse. Harris just proposed a significant investment in raising pay for public school teachers (which is warranted given what's gone down in OK and WV). I like that we're seeing some new proposals bubbling to the surface to discuss. This is what an ideal Democratic primary contest should look like rather than an ugly circular firing squad built around cultish tribalism and/or identity politics. Both will inevitably seep into the process, but they can't dominate it without turning off the GE electorate.
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  #17022  
Old 03-23-2019, 03:29 PM
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There's one candidate right now who is providing a direct comparison between themselves and Trump on policy and the lies Trump used to woo the Obama > Trump middle and independents who couldn't stand HRC (for good and bad reasons). Everyone on the Democratic side is against Trump. Only one is going policy point by point vs. the lies Trump used to pretend to be a right-wing populist.

If you listen to the actual policy proposals and who they're aimed at helping, Sanders' is not a radical. He's not a traitor to his class like FDR was, but his policies and vision are the same as FDR and MLK Jr.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


As I said before, Bernie only ran in 2016 because the person he wanted to run against Hillary wouldn't do it. Warren is the next best candidate for doing what needs to be done to excise the oligarchic controlled late-stage capitalist tumor that is sickening the US Government. Can she do it by herself? Nope. Bernie says the exact same thing every rally. This will take a movement.

Can any number of Democratic Party potentials beat Trump in 2020? Absolutely. There is one candidate that has the grassroots movement behind them to get the change required though. The vast majority of that movement would get behind Warren if that's how it breaks out later down the line too.

To vote for any Third Way or Vapid "Unity" Centrist like Beto is a privileged vote. I understand voting for a centrist or someone to get back to the grace of Obama. For the people who like Biden or Harris or Beto or Klobuchar or Gillibrand, their presidencies would represent a continuation of the status quo which is admittedly pretty good for them. A continuation allowing corporate and oligarch control of our public policy is not as immediately and obviously detrimental to them as it is to myriad other people.

I get the "We don't want a political revolution" sentiment. I disagree with it. If you're not comfortable with a political revolution it's because you're comfortable with the status quo and are willing to put the continued suffering that the status quo brings to millions below your own comfort. Change is scary. Now is the time for real change though. We must reign in capitalism, we must make our mixed economy value public good more than profit. We must remove the corrupting influence of special interests (oligarchs, corporations, unions alike) in our governance. You will not accomplish any of that without a real grassroots bottom-up effort from the People. The comfortable neo-liberal technocrats will never inspire a grassroots movement of support. The policies they fight for are divorced from public opinion. They simply serve different masters than the People.
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  #17023  
Old 03-23-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
And btw, you don't know ANY of that. Not one iota. You haven't read the report (obviously) and court filings to date indicate that those who pled guilty and were flipped like Flynn and Gates HAVE given valuable information that EVEN NOW is being acted upon in ongoing investigations.

And that's before I even get into what a GD weasel you are to refuse to mention that Mueller's court filings also clearly indicate that Stone was actively in contact with Russian intelligence cut outs Wikileaks and Guccifer 2.0 and that Manafort was in contact with Russian intelligence agent Konstantin Klimnik. There's ample evidence of collusion heaped upon ample evidence of attempted collusion because Trump Jr., Kushner, and Manafort took a meeting with two Russian intelligence agents to try to acquire dirt on a political opponent. None of the above facts are in dispute. Literally none of them. And that's why "others have said" that Barr is going to resist releasing anything other than an onerously redacted copy of the report, because they're scared shitless what that report is going to lay bare, to say nothing of Trump's attempts to obstruct and cover up.
You are a real piece of work pete. First you accuse me of not knowing what is in the report and yet because you think you know everything there is to know about all, as you post this:

Quote:
And that's why "others have said" that Barr is going to resist releasing anything other than an onerously redacted copy of the report, because they're scared shitless what that report is going to lay bare, to say nothing of Trump's attempts to obstruct and cover up
If you did not believe the "then there are others" you would not have even posted this, but this fits your narrative so you did.

Why is there no outrage from you on how Russia tried their very best to throw our elections, like they have done to others in the past? Mueller indicted what....24 Russians in the probe. And how do you think he got the information to indict? Most likely the information came from our intel agencies. And if these intel agencies had the information on the Russians then why not take down Trump and his people at the same time? Why??? Because one can only assume that the intel agencies either had zero information, or not enough to convict.

So Mueller does what and good investigator would do if they could not dig up the dirt on Trump......you go after those around him. Once Mueller found these people he used what ever he could to try and flip them. He may have gotten convictions or pleas for things that were not connected to the campaign, but he found the dirt from outside the campaign and tried to flip those he got. He failed. And how do we know this? Because yesterday they announce no new indictments.

And yes, Trump has big problems in other jurisdictions. We will see how they play out.

But your posts and links for 2 years now on how Mueller was going to get Jared, Eric, Jr, Ivanka and others just shows me how blind you are with hatred for this President. You should be embarrassed by those posts as clearly you were wrong.

Like I have said, we should now be letting the other jurisdictions do their job while Congress should be making damn sure that there is not a repeat of Russian interference in 2020.

Soon the IG will be releasing his investigation into the Dossier, the FBI, DOJ and FISA. From the release in the last few days of emails between DOJ, McCabe and Page this report will be one interesting read.
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  #17024  
Old 03-23-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pete View Post

And that's why "others have said" that Barr is going to resist releasing anything other than an onerously redacted copy of the report, because they're scared shitless what that report is going to lay bare, to say nothing of Trump's attempts to obstruct and cover up.
Do you know the history of the "Independent Counsel"? Prior to 1988 they were called "Special Prosecutors". In 1988 the Democrat control Congress changed the name and placed more restrictions on the findings and made the Independent Counsel's report confidential. One has to find it funny that today your party wants it all after those before them saw the dangers in that.
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  #17025  
Old 03-23-2019, 04:00 PM
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pete pete is offline
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If you did not believe the "then there are others"
I have strong suspicions that Barr is going to be a villain in this tale that's unfolding, based on his evasiveness in his confirmation hearing, yes. But, we shall see.

Quote:
Why is there no outrage from you on how Russia tried their very best to throw our elections, like they have done to others in the past? Mueller indicted what....24 Russians in the probe. And how do you think he got the information to indict? Most likely the information came from our intel agencies. And if these intel agencies had the information on the Russians then why not take down Trump and his people at the same time? Why??? Because one can only assume that the intel agencies either had zero information, or not enough to convict.
I think it's probably fair to say I've been the person here expressing the most outrage about Russian interference in the 2016 election for over 2 years. I also would point out I was the only person here pointing to the parallels to previous Russian interference in politics in other countries like France. But, hell, whatever you say, Waiver. Yep, I've been a Russian apologist, unlike you... the guy who said, "So what? Everyone does business with Russia!" after Mueller's court filings clearly laid out that Trump was lying through his teeth the entire campaign when he kept saying he had no business with Russia.

And has been explained to you about a zillion times on this board: yes, Mueller knows everything the IC knows. No, that doesn't mean he can charge based on everything he knows because some evidence can't be put into a public court proceeding without exposing the IC's sources and methods. It wasn't just a question of what Mueller could or couldn't prove, it's a matter of what he could prove without building a case on sensitive classified evidence alone. Heck, a lot of what led to the IC's concern about Trump came from allied foreign intelligence services from places as far flung as Estonia.

Quote:
So Mueller does what and good investigator would do if they could not dig up the dirt on Trump......you go after those around him. Once Mueller found these people he used what ever he could to try and flip them. He may have gotten convictions or pleas for things that were not connected to the campaign, but he found the dirt from outside the campaign and tried to flip those he got. He failed. And how do we know this? Because yesterday they announce no new indictments.
100% speculation on your part. 100%. The report could say, "Trump is probably guilty as sin and the only reason he wasn't indicted was because DOJ policy says we don't indict a sitting POTUS." It could also say, "Trump obstructed justice and we didn't prosecute because DOJ policy says we don't indict a sitting POTUS and, oh by the way, there's ample evidence of crimes either he or his children or his confederates committed that are the underlying cause of his obstruction that have been referred out to other DOJ offices for prosecution." I think the latter of those two scenarios would be more possible, but both are in the realm of what's possible and we won't know a damned thing for sure until a full release of the report is made without an onerous amount of redactions.

Quote:
And yes, Trump has big problems in other jurisdictions. We will see how they play out.
Indeed he does.

Quote:
But your posts and links for 2 years now on how Mueller was going to get Jared, Eric, Jr, Ivanka and others just shows me how blind you are with hatred for this President.
And any one of them may still get indicted by SDNY. Keep crowing though.

Quote:
Like I have said, we should now be letting the other jurisdictions do their job while Congress should be making damn sure that there is not a repeat of Russian interference in 2020.
As opposed to what the Trump Administration and Republicans in Congress were doing the prior two years where they invited interference in the midterms by looking the other way?
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  #17026  
Old 03-23-2019, 04:07 PM
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pete pete is offline
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Do you know the history of the "Independent Counsel"? Prior to 1988 they were called "Special Prosecutors". In 1988 the Democrat control Congress changed the name and placed more restrictions on the findings and made the Independent Counsel's report confidential. One has to find it funny that today your party wants it all after those before them saw the dangers in that.
And after the way the Republicans abused the new statute to morph the Whitewater investigation into the Monica Lewinsky scandal, the regs were re-written again to create the "Special Counsel." One of the writers of the SC regs was Neal Katyal. Care to read what he said about the need for Barr to release the report with as few redactions as possible?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.78b9530a2617
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