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  #8611  
Old 07-13-2017, 07:53 AM
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gphockey gphockey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
You want me to sit back and let the GOP and their imbecile dismantle society and erode core democratic institutions so they can line their pockets. That's a position that deserves one response.
Gotta love your passion.
Just curious is there some benefit or right that the Federal government provides that you are personally going to lose?
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  #8612  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:24 AM
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BurnTHalO BurnTHalO is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gphockey View Post
Gotta love your passion.
Just curious is there some benefit or right that the Federal government provides that you are personally going to lose?
Again, this is what gets me. Am I personally going to lose? Eh, I could seeing as I'm in the consulting industry. But I don't care about what I am losing. I care about 2 generations from now not being able to see what a park looks like. About them never being able to use Lake Erie for recreation. I worry about the millions who will lose all health care coverage. I think about how others are affected, I don't sit and think of myself.
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  #8613  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:40 AM
Flycoon Flycoon is offline
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Originally Posted by gphockey View Post
Gotta love your passion.
Just curious is there some benefit or right that the Federal government provides that you are personally going to lose?
I will answer this question for myself, I have no idea what Zeke's circumstance is.

I fear the dismantling of Medicare and Social Security; if they get Medicaid they will move on to these programs. The GOP has HATED both programs from day one. Medicare and Social Security are the bed rock of America; take them out and we are IMMEDIATELY a third world country.

At the very core, the GOP sees it's role as constructing a playground for the multi national companies that dominate the world. They would like the government to provide military security (international and domestic), incarceration, and whatever else their corporate masters deign worthy.

In turn, I ask you, gp, what do you have to gain by the dismantling of these institutions? My guess is your taxes might go down a bit. From your posts I assume you work every day and being in Maine probably at a modest salary. Retire with no Medicare or Social Security? You're screwed unless you plan to drop dead within days of leaving your job(s).

My tax liability is typically $45-55K. I have skin in this game. I support single payer health insurance and would pony up the additional taxes needed to make it so.
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  #8614  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:41 AM
Flycoon Flycoon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnTHalO View Post
Again, this is what gets me. Am I personally going to lose? Eh, I could seeing as I'm in the consulting industry. But I don't care about what I am losing. I care about 2 generations from now not being able to see what a park looks like. About them never being able to use Lake Erie for recreation. I worry about the millions who will lose all health care coverage. I think about how others are affected, I don't sit and think of myself.
I'm on the same page as you.
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  #8615  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnTHalO View Post
Again, this is what gets me. Am I personally going to lose? Eh, I could seeing as I'm in the consulting industry. But I don't care about what I am losing. I care about 2 generations from now not being able to see what a park looks like. About them never being able to use Lake Erie for recreation. I worry about the millions who will lose all health care coverage. I think about how others are affected, I don't sit and think of myself.
On the same page, as well. It's the same reason we all pay school taxes even though some of us have no children. It is for a better society for all.
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  #8616  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:27 AM
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ZeykShade ZeykShade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gphockey View Post
Gotta love your passion.
Just curious is there some benefit or right that the Federal government provides that you are personally going to lose?
Ok,

1. The government doesn't provide rights. They don't have the power to do so. They are supposed to protect the rights of people. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness etc.

2. I'm not on any form of government assistance. I'm 42 years old and lucky enough to be in good health, have insurance through my employer and live comfortably in California. I realize that all of my neighbors and fellow Americans are not as fortunate as I am. I understand that the common societal contract I'm a part of pays for the common good. If my neighbor has access to preventative medical care, it helps everyone in the form of lower prices. If my neighbor's kids have access to affordable education, it helps everyone in the form of producing productive members of society going forward. If my neighbor is a woman(pro-tip half of them are!), it behooves me to treat them as equals and not property whose sole purpose is to breed with little or no control over their own bodies. I understand that the elderly have earned the right to live out the rest of their lives with dignity and not be discarded like they were prior to Social Security and Medicare.

There's one party that is against ALL of this. The framing of your question indicates this. Waiver or someone tried this awhile ago. Tried to insinuate that the only reason I would care about other people or government programs is that I was some kind of leech sucking on the teat of government etc. I'm not, but I have the critical thinking skills and empathy to realize that I could be.
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  #8617  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:33 AM
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pete pete is offline
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Quote:
Just curious is there some benefit or right that the Federal government provides that you are personally going to lose?
I'm just going to place this right here...

Quote:
Through our scientific and technological genius, we have made of this world a neighborhood and yet we have not had the ethical commitment to make of it a brotherhood. But somehow, and in some way, we have got to do this. We must all learn to live together as brothers or we will all perish together as fools. We are tied together in the single garment of destiny, caught in an inescapable network of mutuality. And whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. For some strange reason I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. And you can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the way Godís universe is made; this is the way it is structured.

John Donne caught it years ago and placed it in graphic terms: "No man is an island entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main." And he goes on toward the end to say, "Any manís death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind; therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." We must see this, believe this, and live by it if we are to remain awake through a great revolution.

-Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
"Remaining Awake Through a Great Revolution"
Delivered at the National Cathedral, Washington, D.C., on 31 March 1968.
https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/k...her-king-jr-10

As much as you try to deny it, everyone is tied together interdependently. You can't simply view the world only through the lens of, "What's in it for me?"
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  #8618  
Old 07-13-2017, 03:59 PM
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Hmmmmm, it now seems that the Russian that Trump Jr met with should had never been here. Twice her visa was turned down. But then at the last minute AG Lynch approved a visa, but for just a few months which she over stayed.

Trump Jr screwed up, no question about it. But to many of our politicians have cozied up to those that are tied to the Russian government.

These people are our enemy and they should be treated as such. Their goal is to cause discourse in not only our elections, but elections around the world.

If the below link from Fox News is true we should all have many more questions about what the hell is going on......

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...-on-lynch.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...isa-block.html
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  #8619  
Old 07-13-2017, 04:13 PM
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WaiverWire WaiverWire is offline
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
Translation: there's nothing Trump could do for Waiver to rescind his tacit support for his presidency. None. He could be Hitler, Mussolini, and Satan all rolled into one and Waiver would still be all on board as long as he had an (R) beside his name. A video taped confession of multiple sexual assaults didn't do it. The well-documented memos of the former FBI Director laying down in black and white Obstruction and Justice didn't move the needle. An authenticated e-mail proving that his own son treasonously attempted to collude with a hostile foreign government to manipulate a democratic election? He's all for it. There is literally no low that Waiver won't support. When Trump bragged during the campaign that he could gun someone down in broad daylight on 5th Avenue and he wouldn't lose any voters... he was talking about lemmings like Waiver .

I'm old enough to remember when Waiver wouldn't even admit that Russia was the source of the Wikileaks documents, even though the US government confirmed it in a joint statement signed by nearly all of its counterintelligence agencies. Indeed, Waiver swore up and down that Wikileaks, holders of the much-coveted Kazakhstan Union of Journalists seal of approval, had more credibility than the CIA, NSA, and Department of Homeland Security. And then even Trump had to admit Russia was behind the hacking...

I'm also old enough to remember when Waiver used to flog the old chestnut about how Clapper, Comey, etc. had testified that there was no evidence of collusion with the Russians (yet) as proof there would never be evidence of collusion with the Russians (ever). And then Don Jr.'s e-mails hit the fan...

Put it another way...

I'm old enough to remember when Waiver used to claim that having a handful of small cut and pasted low level classified excerpts in the body of e-mails on an encrypted private server that had never been hacked (whereas the government's server had been) was a grave enough threat to national security that the owner of the server should be locked up and thrown in jail.

And then Donald Trump wandered into a meeting in the Oval Office where he barred the American media and unwittingly (and witlessly) welcomed in the Russian media to observe a meeting with Russia's ambassador where he spilled the beans about a highly classified Israeli undercover agent who was one of our best sources of information in the fight against ISIS...

And then Donald Trump's son published an e-mail string of his where he gleefully set up a meeting to try to obtain e-mails that might've theoretically been obtained by some of the illegal hacking activities Waiver claimed should be jailed for not adequately guarding against.

In other words... the mere possibility of having your e-mails stolen is a more grave offense to Waiver than working with the thieves, a hostile foreign government, to steal and distribute those e-mails... if the former has a (D) besides their name and the latter has an (R).

In other words, to summarize, Waiver and Trump supporters just like him are unprincipled, spineless treason weasels. Period.
I guess pete forgets what no profession was........I heard worse stuff then this during my career. These are nothing but pebbles being cast by someone that evidently failed to listen when Comey listed what HRC did wrong. And I guess that he failed to read the report that was release recently about how shoddy the investigation was.

In time the truth will come out.....it always does.

And like petes election polling predictions he may once again have egg on his face.
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  #8620  
Old 07-13-2017, 04:15 PM
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nutznboltz nutznboltz is offline
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"Somebody said", "I may have heard" Is this another case of Trump throwing stuff out there with no evidence, just to deflect attention away from his latest scandal? Now, according to Fox, Lynch apparently was in cahoots with this Russian lawyer so she could set up Trump Jr in some kind of sting operation.

I thought the emails said that she was flying in from Moscow for this meeting, not already in the USA since January 2016?
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