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  #19971  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
I reject your framing. The point isn't whether billionaires are self-made. The point is that billionaires are a policy failure because it is impossible to provide a billion dollars worth of value to society.
If that is your point, not keeping their $$ but how they made it, than why are linking tweets about generational wealth? That shouldn't matter

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I am not opposed from the outset to a VAT. But it has to be a VAT regime that seriously considers necessities consumption and eliminates them from being eligible for a VAT. VAT by itself is likely regressive, a regime that takes into account the various types of things that are consumed and responsibly removes items that are necessities can be set up to be progressive.
That's part of Yang's plan

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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
For a UBI to be successful, it has to be at a level that folks can actually live on. $1k a month, while a damn sight better than nothing, is not a liveable amount of money in quite a few places in the US. This particularly must be the case if it's going to replace all other safety net programs as Yang states. What about people who have living costs that are substantially higher than $1k a month? Yang's UBI doesn't address inequality in the hopes of reducing it. For those with higher costs of living because of disabilities, medical conditions, etc., Yang's UBI actually increases inequality because their standard of living actually decreases.
Yang has said repeatedly that a UBI is the base level of support, it's not the end all be all. It's also an opt in, the social safety nets are still in place for those who do not want to take part in UBI and receive more than 1k a month.

Yang's UBI isn't perfect, but it's a foot in the door to eventually move towards a living wage. It doesn't need to be a living wage now for it to be extremely effective.

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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
The best way to address automation and labor being replaced by robots is to pass legislation that democratizes the workplace and forces the increased productivity of automation/robotics to benefit labor instead of just capital as it does now. So, hello 3 day work week for 5 days worth of pay. My robot/algorithm is doing things that used to take up most of my day and now my standard of living has increased greatly due to a better work/life balance.
The legislation to enforce this would be incredibly clunky. Robots aren't lightening the load, their replacing people completely. You don't need to hire and pay a truck driver for three days worth of work if your robot fleet can do it all for you, 24/7, with a perfect driving record.
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  #19972  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:03 AM
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Sanders says that AOC would play an important role in the White House if he is elected. I’m guessing Sanders said this because he really didn’t want to be President, but doesn’t know a graceful way to get out.

Even those of you who like her have to know that she is totally toxic to the vast majority of Americans.
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Last edited by Donnie D; 11-11-2019 at 10:20 AM.
  #19973  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:26 AM
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Sanders says that AOC would play an important role in the White House if he is elected. Iím guessing Sanders said this because he really didnít want to be President, but doesnít know a graceful way to get out.

Even those of you who like her have to know that she is totally toxic to the vast majority of Americans.


Sanders has never cared about electability
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  #19974  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:17 PM
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Default Nope, no police state here.

https://theintercept.com/2019/11/11/...-surveillance/
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  #19975  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
Sanders says that AOC would play an important role in the White House if he is elected. I’m guessing Sanders said this because he really didn’t want to be President, but doesn’t know a graceful way to get out.

Even those of you who like her have to know that she is totally toxic to the vast majority of Americans.
Tell that to the 7000 Iowans she rallied this week and canvased with. Projection, it's a bitch.

Sanders is banking on a different strategy than what you're all used to. If it works, great. If not, what's the difference? We get more of the boomer-centrist schmucks who have sold us all out for decades. Your prefered politicians are shitbags who draw NO ONE to the party. They rely on the same old tired electorate of aging semi-racists who see everything as identity politics. Sanders is attempting to get the 44.9M non-college educated voters, who DO NOT VOTE, to actually care enough to vote. Attempting to turn out a multi-racial, multi-gendered, working-class base by speaking to their material interests instead of taking their votes for granted.

Again, no harm in trying. Worst case is Schumer and Pelosi get to fundraise against Trump for another 4 years while he burns the planet down and starts to build camps to intern academics and trade unionists.
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Last edited by ZeykShade; 11-11-2019 at 02:22 PM.
  #19976  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:42 PM
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https://www.mediaite.com/politics/il...-brutal-tweet/

The juxtaposition of Ilhan's comments with those of Schumer regarding a virulent bigot like Pete King are pretty jarring.
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  #19977  
Old 11-11-2019, 03:35 PM
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Default Death by Oligarchy by Chris Hedges

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/death-by-oligarchy/
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  #19978  
Old 11-11-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
Your prefered politicians are shitbags who draw NO ONE to the party.
My preferred politician is Yang, who might actually be the only candidate successfully siphoning off the poor rural conservatives who voted for Trump last cycle.
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  #19979  
Old 11-11-2019, 05:15 PM
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I haven’t picked a candidate for the primary yet, but it won’t be Williamson or Sanders. And probably not Warren.
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Last edited by Donnie D; 11-11-2019 at 05:25 PM.
  #19980  
Old 11-11-2019, 05:22 PM
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My preferred politician is Yang, who might actually be the only candidate successfully siphoning off the poor rural conservatives who voted for Trump last cycle.
Both Yang and Sanders do that. One has a foreign policy that breaks with the neoliberal raping of the planet for private profit. One actually supports Universal Healthcare (his website says he's still on board, but publicly he often intentionally conflates it with a public option and has stated that "outlawing private insurance in a short period of time would be too disruptive" this is intentionally cynical as M4A does not outlaw private insurance. It bans duplicative coverage allowing the market to sort out what the private insurers want to do. He recently admitted to simply using the brand M4A while supporting something else to a journalist during an interview. M4A is a defined thing.). One actually has executive and legislative experience in government. Yang has less of this than Mayor Pete and Pete is straight Greg Stillson kind of terrifying with his only real accomplishments being gentrification of a small college town, demoting/firing its first black police chief in favor of supporting the racist police officers under that chief, while assisting them in managing the murder of an unarmed black man.

Add in Yang's talking about the "white birth rate" and he's not doing it in some way of addressing infant mortality.

Quote:
Deaths now outnumber births among white people in more than half the states in the country. Much of this is low birth rates and white men dying from substance abuse and suicide. Our life expectancy has declined for 3 years. We need to do much more.
His views on the market are decidedly pro-same old shit we've been doing for decades with a bribe thrown in to keep people from seeking to really solve problems through radical regulation of automation and markets(Social Democracy).

Not to mention, none of the other candidates address getting anything done except for Sanders and, to a lesser extent, Warren. Very few things can be done without the legislative branches of the government. Sanders has signaled a willingness to enact change through EO's to address material deficiencies disproportionately affecting the working-class poor and minorities. Yang, no such signaling. Sanders, and lately Warren, address the need to flush the legislative branch and replace them with representatives who work for the People alone and not the oligarchs. We need ~10% of the population to make the system come to a halt until we reclaim our democracy. The same kind of movement as Women's Suffrage or the Civil Rights Movement. That's what we need. Having a plan is literally 1/10th of the problem.

Supporting any candidate beyond Sanders or Warren, no matter how well-intentioned, is supporting a steady march toward eventual fascism. The infrastructure is already in place. The center will side with the fascists when the time comes. The Demonized that are immigrants and Muslims today, will eventually become whoever speaks out against minority for-profit rule.

I don't mind single-issue candidates. They bring a lot to the table occasionally. Inslee focusing on Climate Change was fantastic. UBI isn't to be dismissed entirely, but Yang's version is essentially a bribe to keep people from looking behind the curtain. Because of this, he's a fake populist. His main "plan" serves the oligarchy by tossing a placebo at those the oligarchs exploit the most.

Also, spending considerable energy on voters who voted for Trump is asinine. I mentioned it earlier, giving people who DO NOT vote a reason to come out and vote is the better path. It's simple math. There are 44.9m non-college educated folks who didn't vote last time around. Much larger pool to pull from.
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