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  #14261  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:59 PM
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ZeykShade ZeykShade is offline
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Originally Posted by dannybolt View Post
One would think not having a pair of oceans insulating them from Russia would be enough of an enticement for them to ante up in their own defense. Particularly after the proxy wars in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan. Wasn't there hand wringing about admitting the Ukraine into the EU, because then something would have to be done about Russia's invasion of Crimea? Perhaps other NATO members didn't feel the need to ante up so long as the U.S. was picking up the slack?

Further, the deployment of US troops within Europe kind of works against your argument, in that it is partly a driver of the imbalance in NATO spending. It also helps to drive the problems behind your overarching criticism of the military industrial complex that you have expressed (rightly) in a myriad of other posts.

I think other NATO countries are upping their contributions out of the fear that Trump may just leave them twisting in the wind. Maybe Trump's cozying up to Putin and hammering our allies in NATO is part of a ploy to simultaneously scale back our military commitments to NATO, while encouraging, albeit in a typically assholish ham-fisted way, our allies to increase their own commitments. Then again, maybe I'm giving him too much credit and xenophobia is driving this decision. Who knows with dear leader.

Ultimately, I agree with your paraphrasing of The Dude: Trump's not wrong, he's just an asshole.
The agreements to up their contributions were hammered out by Obama. Could they contribute more? Sure. If Trump wanted to send a real signal, he'd slash our military spending since we outspend everyone combined.

We both know that won't happen because it's too lucrative for the oligarchy.
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  #14262  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:04 PM
gwf82 gwf82 is offline
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Not to derail, but have been a way a while and had to log in to put a certain member on ignore. I'm assuming most here have done the same...otherwise I don't know how you guys have dealt with them for as long as you have! You're certainly my heroes.
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  #14263  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
f Trump wanted to send a real signal, he'd slash our military spending since we outspend everyone combined.

We both know that won't happen because it's too lucrative for the oligarchy.
Truer words have never been spoken (typed).
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  #14264  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:12 PM
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Does he plan on shaving costs on military spending if the other NATO nations scale up?
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  #14265  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gwf82 View Post
Not to derail, but have been a way a while and had to log in to put a certain member on ignore. I'm assuming most here have done the same...otherwise I don't know how you guys have dealt with them for as long as you have! You're certainly my heroes.
Said poster was engaged in good faith when they first showed up. Now they are pretty much yelling in an empty room. Seeing their posts is what reminds me I haven't logged in yet, haha.

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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
Does he plan on shaving costs on military spending if the other NATO nations scale up?
Unlikely, since he increased military spending in his last budget.
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  #14266  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:34 PM
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ZeykShade ZeykShade is offline
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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
Does he plan?
Answer: Never. His model is simple self-promotional chaos. That's it. There is no plan ever beyond feeding his narcissism.
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  #14267  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dannybolt View Post
Unlikely, since he increased military spending in his last budget.
Hell, the Dems and GOP banded together to give him $80B more than he asked for.
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  #14268  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:06 PM
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Maybe the issue isn't that the EU is spending too little on defense, maybe it's that the US is spending too much?
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  #14269  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:21 PM
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Maybe the issue isn't that the EU is spending too little on defense, maybe it's that the US is spending too much?
Has been the case since you and I were born Donnie.
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  #14270  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:27 PM
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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...legates-710818

Quote:
A band of Democratic National Committee superdelegates is staging a revolt against a Bernie Sanders-endorsed plan to reduce their influence in the presidential nominating process, mounting a longshot bid to block the measure when the DNC meets in Chicago next month.
Quote:
“If we don’t have a vote, then what good are we?” said William Owen, a superdelegate and DNC member from Tennessee who has been contacting fellow DNC members ahead of the Chicago gathering, especially in the South. “In Chicago, this will not be rubber stamped.”
Nowhere in the Politico article will they tell you that William Owen is a lobbyist for the Health Care industry...Kinda amusing that he believes his vote should matter more than ours.

Quote:
During the committee meeting Wednesday, Don Fowler, a former DNC chairman and outspoken critic of the rules change, asked, “For what? Why? … Why vote if you can’t affect the outcome?
Bolded the part that is germane... Why would we, The People, vote when it doesn't matter thanks to SuperDelegates like you? Btw, Don is also a lobbyist. Politico doesn't mention this either.

If Politico did their jobs and informed readers that the whining SuperDelegates are whining because they're paid to by corporations and powerful interest groups, then the readers would see Sanders' point regarding how money corrupts everything in politics(even within the beloved Democratic Party).
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