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  #21  
Old 11-30-2019, 11:38 AM
goldenbolt goldenbolt is offline
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Originally Posted by Kizman View Post
My question is...how much of the draft comes from the scouts or does the GM have a vision he wants and does that basically run the draft?

So was Yzerman saying he wants a certain type of player and the scouts basically gave him the best available?

I didn't see a big emphasis on Defense or goalie... and the ones we went with earlier didn't work out...so, I feel that maybe with Cal Foote, they may of been looking to focus on D as they saw the organizational weakness and felt he was best available.
According to folklore - Yzerman did not make the calls. The scouting staff decided the choices and if there was a need to choose because of inability to agree then the GM would step in and chose from one or the other choice.

The vision question? Yzerman went all big "D" in his first draft with the wings this year and being that he was scouting for the wings on the Lighnings dime I suspect he had some input this year.

Koekkoe was damaged goods in the draft he sat out most of the next year with shoulder injury. Probably could have been picked up in the 2nd round IMO. It was an extreme over reach for me. Same with DeAngelo why take a head case who would make the Steve Downie incidents seem like a walk in the park.

We are what we are - a skilled team lacking defensive depth and power forward type players on the top lines. Our weakness was exposed by the Jackets after that exciting 82 game pre-season schedule from last year. Run the "D" whack away at the stars with the new playoff rule book and voila swept under the rug.

Pete mentioned yesterday's calls or lack of calls from the refs - and I agree - but the rule book in play yesterday was playoff style hockey. Piece of crap in my opinion but it's what we and other skilled teams will face going forward until something changes.
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2019, 11:43 AM
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RSchmitz RSchmitz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizman View Post
My question is...how much of the draft comes from the scouts or does the GM have a vision he wants and does that basically run the draft?

So was Yzerman saying he wants a certain type of player and the scouts basically gave him the best available?

I didn't see a big emphasis on Defense or goalie... and the ones we went with earlier didn't work out...so, I feel that maybe with Cal Foote, they may of been looking to focus on D as they saw the organizational weakness and felt he was best available.
From interviews over the last 8 or 9 years, yes. We do draft for need over BPA
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2019, 12:10 PM
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Donnie D Donnie D is offline
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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
From interviews over the last 8 or 9 years, yes. We do draft for need over BPA
Thatís not correct. Al Murray has always said that they pick BPA.
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2019, 07:07 PM
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dannybolt dannybolt is online now
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Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
Thatís not correct. Al Murray has always said that they pick BPA.
That's what they say; I think they do that for the most part, but not exclusively, especially when they drafted Koekkoek after 7 D men went directly in front of him and we badly needed a D man. Taking Tony DeAngelo in his draft year also points to drafting for need, as there just weren't a lot of D in his draft class and we reached to take him. Ironically, the next D taken after Tony D was when we took Masin in the 2nd. There were loads of forwards available when we took Tony D, Fabbri immediately comes to mind, but there were others.

That said, taking Drouin over Seth Jones points to BPA, because Jones fit perfectly into an organizational need (one that took trading Drouin for Sergachev to finally rectify after missing on Tony D and Kooks).

Frankly if it's drafting for need strategically, but generally going BPA, that is probably a pretty smart way to go about things. I would be shocked if Murray is too dogmatic about it.
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2019, 07:25 PM
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I think what it boils down to is they just haven't done that well recently, and we got spoiled after the monster 2011 draft, where they pulled Kucherov, Palat and Namestnikov and 2012 where they pulled Vasi and Paquette in addition to Dotchin, Kooks and Gusev. The amount of NHL quality talent taken in those two years was just massive and is casting quite the shadow over the more recent drafts.

This is further compounded by having traded Howden and Hajek, the two best prospects of our last 4 drafts (at least at the moment). If Hajek was on our 3rd pair, and Howden was our 4C, or playing wing with Cirelli, I don't think there would be the same level of criticism. Cirelli's emergence really made losing Howden more palatable, and Hajek was never going to be higher than 3rd pair left, and when he was traded, his competition for that spot, Masin, was still trending up (despite the verdict on this message board).

Why the players that we haven't traded are not pushing for a roster spot is a question for smarter people than me, but a question I've raised previously. Pete says that the quality of the pool is lower, but I'm unclear as to why that would be as it isn't like we have been only drafting in the 4th round or later. There's a handful of top 60 picks that aren't pushing and should be. To me that speaks to taking players with low risk/low ceilings that are even missing those lowered expectations. Perhaps it's not having a rookie whisperer in Syracuse, perhaps it's drafting philosophy, perhaps it's reaching and missing, perhaps it's bad scouting. Where the rubber meets the road though, is that the Lightning model is unsustainable unless a couple of the forwards take some steps forward and Cal Foote makes the team next year.

I'm not worried. Yet.
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Last edited by dannybolt; 11-30-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2019, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
That’s not correct. Al Murray has always said that they pick BPA.
I remember a recent draft where he said that they pick BPA, and then contradicted that by saying they have a "list" of the best players and choose from that list. I remember Volkov specifically that he said that they were afraid he'd be picked in the third round so they snagged him in the second, clearly the selections are much more dynamic than just picking BPA. This is also what Yzerman said, they don't specifically select for need, if the prospects are close to each other in their value that is the way they go but they won't select from outside that tier.

This is just a roundabout way of saying that they select for need without reaching too bad. Explains why they've dealt down in years past when seemingly great picks were on the board.
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