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  #9371  
Old 08-29-2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Flycoon View Post
No telling. Another 9/11 type event could trigger any or all of the scenarios you suggest. Sold as an expansion of th Patriot Act.
Not so sure about that. Because of the events of prior administrations Congress is up in arms about the FISA 702, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) authorizing the Intelligence Community to target the communications of non-U.S. persons located outside the United States for foreign intelligence purposes. Prior administrations have clearly used the 702 for things other than what it was meant for and it appears Congress may very well not renew the 702 when it expires in December.
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  #9372  
Old 08-29-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
After 9/11 the TSA was a minor annoyance of Security Theater. The real damage to the Republic was The Patriot Act and the National Defense Authorization Act and the Black Site Torture shops setup around the globe on behalf of the United States of America.

As far as I'm concerned, Al Qaeda won. They scared the mighty United States into becoming a surveillance state well on its way to a complete police state.
The only good thing to come from 9/11 was that everyone outside of a few agencies learned just how unresponsive the federal agencies are to each other. Not only did they not talk to each other, but they refused to share information. Why was this? They want to protect the little kingdoms that they each had built.

So they made all these agencies fall under a few directors and guess what? They still do not share information.
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  #9373  
Old 08-29-2017, 01:48 PM
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https://twitter.com/AClaudeCase/stat...81729826717696

More from a person who actually knows with regard to Arpaio.

About the reduction in restrictions on military gear that is available now under Trump.

Obama's restrictions banned:

Tracked Armored Vehicles
Firearms of > .50cal and the ammo required for them
Grenade Launchers
Bayonets
Camouflage Uniforms
Weaponized Aircraft, Vessels and Vehicles of any type.

It did not ban police use of:
Helicopters
UAV Drones
Fixed Wing Aircraft
Tactical Vehicles(HMMMV)
Armored Wheeled Vehicles(MRAPs)
Command and Control Vehicles(think large RV with communications equipment etc)
Explosives and Pyrotechnics(Flash Bangs, Breaching Charges etc)
Riot Helmets
Riot Batons
Riot Shields
Breaching Equipment(battering rams etc)
Specialized Firearms under .50cal

These above were easily and readily available for municipalities to purchase or obtain with federal government oversight. So the blame for MRAPs and Drones is NOT on Trump. This all started after 1999 WTO summit violence. It's escalated since then as an arms race for the Cops.

The vast majority of the equipment listed in the non-banned list is perfectly fine imo. I have an issue with the MRAPs and HMMMVs. Thanks to Trump's modification, those same MRAPs and HMMMVs can now have Ma Deuces affixed to them. That's a .50cal M2 heavy machine gun for those not in the know. But let's not stop there, what's to say a tracked armored vehicle like a Bradley Fighting Vehicle isn't on the way? It's main armament is an M242 Chain Gun in 25mm. That's a 1" projectile fired at 1100m/s with an effective range of 3 kilometers.

"But Zeyk, that won't happen! There's no reason for a police force to have an APC with a Bushmaster Autocannon!"

Yeah, sure. If it's available, some fucking police force will buy it and paint it black and white and slap a "Protect and Serve" sticker on it and jack off to the testosterone manliness it represents.

Waiver's argument is that the police need the vehicles that they ALREADY had access to under Obama's executive order. I say that those need to be revisited to remove MRAPs at the very least. I say that Trump's changes to that order are unconscionable for a civilian policing force to obtain and use. Mounted M249 SAWs on HMMMV and MRAPS are coming. You can bank on it. Armed UAVs are coming, bank on it. Armed Police Helicopters are coming, bank on it.
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  #9374  
Old 08-29-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post



Waiver's argument is that the police need the vehicles that they ALREADY had access to under Obama's executive order. I say that those need to be revisited to remove MRAPs at the very least. I say that Trump's changes to that order are unconscionable for a civilian policing force to obtain and use. Mounted M249 SAWs on HMMMV and MRAPS are coming. You can bank on it. Armed UAVs are coming, bank on it. Armed Police Helicopters are coming, bank on it.
You really are a moron ZeykShade. You know very well what I was referring to, those here that were complaining about a "police state" and how law enforcement were trying to arm themselves with military "toys".


As I have said, many of these tools are saving life's today.......but that's ok as clearly you do not care because they are just "boys with toys".

As far as Firearms of > .50cal and the ammo required for them....HCSO is reasonable for guarding of our port. You know the port with targets that some would love to hit. You know groups that love to use bombs and the like. Well we have one of these guns mounted on the vessel that protects the port. Guess where it came from? So you do not think this is being but to good use?

And if you would take the time to do some research you would find that at no time could any agency obtain a weaponized aircraft, vessels and vehicles of any type.
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  #9375  
Old 08-29-2017, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by WaiverWire View Post
You really are a moron ZeykShade. You know very well what I was referring to, those here that were complaining about a "police state" and how law enforcement were trying to arm themselves with military "toys".


As I have said, many of these tools are saving life's today.......but that's ok as clearly you do not care because they are just "boys with toys".

As far as Firearms of > .50cal and the ammo required for them....HCSO is reasonable for guarding of our port. You know the port with targets that some would love to hit. You know groups that love to use bombs and the like. Well we have one of these guns mounted on the vessel that protects the port. Guess where it came from? So you do not think this is being but to good use?

And if you would take the time to do some research you would find that at no time could any agency obtain a weaponized aircraft, vessels and vehicles of any type.
Despite some , through the sheer idiocy of their posts, arguing the merits of birth control and/or eugenics; my post outlines what was banned and what items Trump's changes to Obama's bans are seeking to make more easily accessible to police forces. I understand that police have always been prohibited from having weaponized vehicles. That is precisely the point of my post. Trump's changes seek to "rectify" that.

Well Waiver, if some scary, funded by our "allies" terrorists want to fly planes into Tampa Bay etc, maybe we should get some AA Missile Batteries manned by the HCSO or perhaps some F-16s to intercept them before they carry out their mission. By your own admission on this very page of this thread, you've stated that federal agencies don't talk with one another still. How is the HCSO going to head off a terrorist attack? They'll be late to the party like they are to every fucking murder already. When seconds count, the cops are minutes away.

What the fuck are the Coast Guard and Navy for? Nah, they're for the big stuff, we need local sheriff's offices to have RIBs like the SEALS ready to lay the hurt on dirty terrorists! Never mind that the investment in training and material would require them to justify the purchase by using said equipment and training. All of this shit is historically accurate. After the 1999 WTO Summit violence, there was an arms race and a profiteering by Arms Manufacturers who lobbied the government to sell surplus and new arms to law enforcement. They are increasingly used outside of their intended purpose. That's not anecdotal, that's a fact. Your experience is worthless in this discussion. Do you understand that?

I don't post for you on this forum. I post to others with you as the idiotic foil. You're basically a prop.

Last edited by ZeykShade; 08-29-2017 at 04:24 PM.
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  #9376  
Old 08-29-2017, 07:52 PM
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Deplorable

https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/statu...73016818126849
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  #9377  
Old 08-29-2017, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dannybolt View Post
As it pertains to the link I posted, Zeyk, please stop using logic and reason. You will trigger WW, because you are attacking his safe space, where law enforcement is presumed correct and ALWAYS has nothing but the best interests of its citizens at heart and in mind. For all of the rest of us that don't believe that fairy tale, go read Radley Balko. Read about no knock raids all over the country, go read about police abuse, go look at photos from Ferguson, and read about how this has been happening for years. He's been documenting this stuff for more than a decade now. Go read about the mentality of local law enforcement all over the country that think they are fighting a war on U.S. Soil. The departments that adopt iconography from the fucking Punisher. Then come and tell me that giving police access to MRAPs, grenade launchers and fucking tanks is a good idea.
Where's the 'Like' button?
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  #9378  
Old 08-30-2017, 05:52 AM
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RSchmitz RSchmitz is offline
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
I have a question for everyone here.

Do you think our public servants should be questioned in their actions and intentions? Think of those serving in public office. Should they be regularly questioned in their motives and actions? Should we question Obama's use of drones, support of Saudi Arabia, expansion of the surveillance state, etc?

Should we question Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server? Should we question the Trump Campaign's alleged collusion with a foreign state in order to effect a result in our elections?

I say yes to all of it.

Why can't we do the same of law enforcement? It's easy to sit back and just let LE tell us they need tanks and drones and not question it or how it affects the public. We as non-LE public have essentially criminalized poverty so as to stratify society and tasked the police with keeping everyone in their boxes. Law and Order, should really be Order and Law. Order is prized more than Law as evidenced by the sheer number of cops that get away with breaking laws to keep order. That needs to change.
Did you know that Socrates was actually strongly against democracy in its current iteration? He thought people should vote, but only educated people, he didn't trust the average person to make rational choices. Exhibit A, Trump is president.

Our current government buys into this a little bit as well, with the Bill of Rights, which isn't just to protect citizens against the government, but to protect individuals against the opinions of the many.

So should public servants be questioned? Yes, but I think we should carefully consider who it is that is asking the questions. As a teacher, I think the profession has been railroaded, and everybody wants their fingerprints on it because of poor achievement. It's an incredibly stressful profession with a high turnover rate, and a lot of that has to do with the micro managing of all of the people who are "asking questions".

Because of this the quality of teachers has gone done, and so has achievement, which leads to more questions. It's a vicious cycle. Virtually anyone with a 4 year degree can be a teacher now, because nobody wants to be a teacher. Hillsborough county was 220 teachers short to start the year, Polk county was 140.

I can go over the long list of issues that all of the questions leads to in another post, but let me just say that it leads to a lot of unnecessary problems. The reality is that a lot of parents dump their kids on teachers, want us to work miracles, and tell the government to keep us in line. That's for 40k a year with a 4 year college degree. I'm not sure how law enforcement fairs with this kind of system in place.

At the same time, there are some questions that still need to be asked. Like I said, they'll take just about anyone in as a teacher now, and I know teachers who don't care at all.
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  #9379  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:13 AM
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Water is tough to keep out.
Many people build homes on piers if there was a question of flooding or perhaps because of code.

In Houston, probably like New Orleans, many people did not have flood insurance, which is costly and devastating to the homeowner/families, the lenders, the community, the city, state and the nation.

Perhaps its time that strong consideration should be given to require a common sense building codes for cities with areas prone to flooding.

For instance to rebuild residential total losses in Houston consider pier type construction.
That said, there are very likely many homes which can be rebuilt as is and never flood again in our lifetime.

For any new construction - Allow pier type homes only to be built in flood prone areas.

Finally, you see these folks walking around in the water, but....that water may be toxic, or contain high amounts of toxins, so consideration should be given to other infrastructure such as septic/sewer systems and underground/above ground tanks, most I would imagine contain petroleum products.

BTW to plug pier homes, I have been in several amazing pier built homes in Florida so it certainly can be done.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ton-home?sc=tw
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  #9380  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:28 AM
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Lack of cyber security in our voting systems makes me nauseous: http://amp.mcclatchydc.com/news/nati...170006067.html
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