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  #421  
Old 06-03-2020, 02:15 PM
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The other three officers charged with aiding and abetting murder and the charge against Derek Chauvin increased to 2nd degree murder. Is this the right move though? IDK what evidence they have, but intent to kill is going to be incredibly difficult to prove. If these officers are found innocent there is going to be another round of riots.
The police kept their knee on him for a full 3 minutes after a police officer found no pulse. That’s pretty damning.
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  #422  
Old 06-03-2020, 02:28 PM
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Trump encouraged the National Enquirer in 2017 to push the debunked conspiracy theory that MSNBC host Joe Scarborough murdered a female congressional aide They refused.
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  #423  
Old 06-03-2020, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
The other three officers charged with aiding and abetting murder and the charge against Derek Chauvin increased to 2nd degree murder. Is this the right move though? IDK what evidence they have, but intent to kill is going to be incredibly difficult to prove. If these officers are found innocent there is going to be another round of riots.
I think they are going off of the last two minutes when George Floyd had stopped talking. Had Chauvin taken his knee off right then and there, maybe it stays at third degree. Since they will prove he had knowledge his act may have indeed killed this man yet still failed to act for a substantial amount of time, that may bump up the mens rea standard to meet the second degree. That's what I believe some of the attorneys for the Floyd family were pushing Ellison to look at.
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  #424  
Old 06-03-2020, 02:59 PM
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I think they are going off of the last two minutes when George Floyd had stopped talking. Had Chauvin taken his knee off right then and there, maybe it stays at third degree. Since they will prove he had knowledge his act may have indeed killed this man yet still failed to act for a substantial amount of time, that may bump up the mens rea standard to meet the second degree. That's what I believe some of the attorneys for the Floyd family were pushing Ellison to look at.
In your professional opinion do you believe it is wise to push the higher charge when the lesser one was viewed as a slam dunk by most legal analysts?
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  #425  
Old 06-03-2020, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Maverick9911 View Post
I think they are going off of the last two minutes when George Floyd had stopped talking. Had Chauvin taken his knee off right then and there, maybe it stays at third degree. Since they will prove he had knowledge his act may have indeed killed this man yet still failed to act for a substantial amount of time, that may bump up the mens rea standard to meet the second degree. That's what I believe some of the attorneys for the Floyd family were pushing Ellison to look at.
Is that enough to convince 12 people beyond a shadow of a doubt that they intended on murdering him though? History is full of cases where people got off with nothing.
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  #426  
Old 06-03-2020, 03:03 PM
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The police kept their knee on him for a full 3 minutes after a police officer found no pulse. That’s pretty damning.
Not for murder 2. Murder 3 yes, but like I said, it's incredibly difficult to prove intent. Murder 2 is usually for people who murder someone in a fit of rage. Seems like a long shot, just from the little bit I know from watching crime shows and murder documentaries.
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  #427  
Old 06-03-2020, 03:26 PM
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The case could permit consideration of all three charges.
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  #428  
Old 06-03-2020, 03:52 PM
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Is that enough to convince 12 people beyond a shadow of a doubt that they intended on murdering him though? History is full of cases where people got off with nothing.

I honestly don't know. I see their logic in bumping up the charge but it remains to be seen whether it will stick. Now you have to hope to have the right venue and jury. Threading the needle just became that much more difficult.

If they botch this, God. That city will look back on this week like it was a carnival.

Quote:
In your professional opinion do you believe it is wise to push the higher charge when the lesser one was viewed as a slam dunk by most legal analysts?
My gut call right now: no. What do you gain out of the higher degree? Who is to say the guy won't pull an Amber Guyger and get a sweetheart sentence? Who is to say the prosecutor - unless Keith Ellison handles this himself - won't fuck up like Angela Corey did with Zimmerman? I don't think the risk is worth the slight reward, no.
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  #429  
Old 06-03-2020, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Maverick9911 View Post
I honestly don't know. I see their logic in bumping up the charge but it remains to be seen whether it will stick. Now you have to hope to have the right venue and jury. Threading the needle just became that much more difficult.

If they botch this, God. That city will look back on this week like it was a carnival.



My gut call right now: no. What do you gain out of the higher degree? Who is to say the guy won't pull an Amber Guyger and get a sweetheart sentence? Who is to say the prosecutor - unless Keith Ellison handles this himself - won't fuck up like Angela Corey did with Zimmerman? I don't think the risk is worth the slight reward, no.
Neal Katyal made the point just now on MSNBC that, in Minn, a third degree murder presumes the two parties knew each other, and that the perp had malice/emotion in acting against the person murdered. He suggested that given the circumstances, even though a "lesser" charge, it could have been harder to prove and convict.
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  #430  
Old 06-03-2020, 05:18 PM
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So apparently trump voted in Florida. His initial registration was denied because it was not a Florida address. He changed it to mar a lago and votes. Apparently he also has an agreement i place there that he can not live at mar a lago as a residence.
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