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  #11  
Old 01-01-2009, 08:05 PM
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We need to hope that this new scouting staff is improved over the last one. While other teams restock through the draft, all we seem to be able to pick up is a few 3rd liners. Other teams draft defensemen who can in a year or two play significant minutes, the guys we draft in the top two rounds are still in the AHL. Good thing we get the top pick in the draft every 10 years or we wouldn't have a drafted player on the top 2 lines.

Our scouting department and our past history has been awful.
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  #12  
Old 01-01-2009, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
Our scouting department and our past history has been awful.
Here we go ...
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:46 AM
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I give up. I mean, if you can't recognize the guys like Ranger, Smolenak, Szczechura etc who the past scouts identified, then what can I do?
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2009, 01:27 PM
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These are our 1st round picks from 1999 to 2005 (players that should be ready to play for us):

1999 - no pick
2000 - Alexeev
2001 - Svitov
2002 - None
2003 - None
2004 - Rogers
2005 - Mihalik


These are our 2nd round picks since 1999:

1999 - Keefe
2000 - Zaynullin
2001 - Polushin
Holmqvist
2002 - Henrich
2003 - Egener
Smaby
2004 - Tobin
2005 - None


Our 3rd round picks

1999 - Konstantonov
Scheffellmaier
Olvestad
2000 -Kharitonov
2001 - Artyukhin
2002 - None
2003 - Boutin
2004 - None
2005 - Smolenak
Lawrence

These are the guys who should be playing regularly for us - or somewhere in the NHL. These are the picks that the scouts are paid to find.

So for the 7 drafts that should be paying off for us, we have a total of 0 first round picks playing in the NHL, We have one 2nd round pick who is playing part time on emergency call ups that your own web site says projects as a 4/5 defenseman, and 1 third round, third line pick.

1 NHL player out of 22 top 3 round picks. One - and he's a 3rd line player.

With the exception of the 3 call ups from the minors as injury replacements - how many draft picks do we have on this team? Vinny, Ranger, R2, Craig, Stamkos. Vinny and Stamkos were no brainers. So other than the 2 #1 picks, we have drafted a total of 1 top 2 defenseman and 0 top 2 line wingers and no goalies with our top 3 round picks. There is no defense for that ineptness. Szczechura wasn't drafted by the Lightning.

Hopefully, the drafts of 2006 - 08 are better, but I don't know how much worse we could have done if we would have put all of the players in a hat and picked one at random.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2009, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
These are our 1st round picks from 1999 to 2005 (players that should be ready to play for us):

1999 - no pick
2000 - Alexeev
2001 - Svitov
2002 - None
2003 - None

2004 - Rogers
2005 - Mihalik


These are our 2nd round picks since 1999:

1999 - Keefe
2000 - Zaynullin
2001 - Polushin
Holmqvist
2002 - Henrich
2003 - Egener
Smaby
2004 - Tobin
2005 - None


Our 3rd round picks

1999 - Konstantonov
Scheffellmaier
Olvestad
2000 -Kharitonov
2001 - Artyukhin
2002 - None
2003 - Boutin
2004 - None
2005 - Smolenak
Lawrence

With the exception of the 3 call ups from the minors as injury replacements - how many draft picks do we have on this team? Vinny, Ranger, R2, Craig, Stamkos. Vinny and Stamkos were no brainers. So other than the 2 #1 picks, we have drafted a total of 1 top 2 defenseman and 0 top 2 line wingers and no goalies with our top 3 round picks. There is no defense for that ineptness. Szczechura wasn't drafted by the Lightning.

Hopefully, the drafts of 2006 - 08 are better, but I don't know how much worse we could have done if we would have put all of the players in a hat and picked one at random.
The fact there are so few first round picks is part of the problem, also to be calling Mihalik out when he was a very late first round pick who is only 3 years after his draft, he is in the AHL and soon could make the jump. You seem to like picking and choosing your statistics, why does it matter how many draft picks we made that are playing for OUR team, players get traded prospects moved if they are still in the NHL it counts.

I mean just from the highlighted drafts there are loads of players you have missed out. And also why does it matter which round the player came from after the draft apart from HF no one cares where such and such player was drafted, so the fact you have highlighted the first 3 round when management were often missing picks and forgotten all the players picked up in later rounds which have been/will be invaluable to the team shows you just dont want to believe the team has some decent scouting. I mean I didnt follow the team back then but from what I have seen the teams scouting has been improving since 02/03. I mean before then it seems a bit of a disaster I will admit, but since then a lot better.
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2009, 03:39 PM
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Rick Dudley and lack of top 60 picks.

Pete had a breakdown comparing TB to other teams. It was well done and showed that to judge TB, you have to look at other teams success rates, too. NHL scouts don't bat very well overall. You're drafting them so young, it's so hard to tell if you've got an Alexeev or a Datsyuk.
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2009, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
why does it matter how many draft picks we made that are playing for OUR team, players get traded prospects moved if they are still in the NHL it counts.
I'll be happy to count them. If you look at the list, I don't believe that there are any drafted prospects drafted in rounds 1 - 3 that are still playing for another NHL team. So I believe the answer is zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
you have highlighted the first 3 round when management were often missing picks and forgotten all the players picked up in later rounds which have been/will be invaluable to the team.
I'll continue:

1999 - rounds 4 - 9 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL
2000 - rounds 4 - 9 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL
2001 - rounds 4 - 9 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL
2002 - round 6 - Paul Ranger, round 8 - Ryan Craig
2003 - rounds 4 - 9 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL
2004 - round 9 - Nick Tarnasky
2005 - rounds 4 - 7 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL.

So those invaluable players would be Ranger and Craig.

How many of these guys are still in the NHL and playing for other teams?

Answer - I believe the answer is only Tarnasky - he got us a 5th round pick.

So in the 7 years of drafts that should be laying the foundation for the team, we have Ranger, R2, Craig and a 5th round pick next year.
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2009, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
I'll be happy to count them. If you look at the list, I don't believe that there are any drafted prospects drafted in rounds 1 - 3 that are still playing for another NHL team. So I believe the answer is zero.



I'll continue:

1999 - rounds 4 - 9 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL
2000 - rounds 4 - 9 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL
2001 - rounds 4 - 9 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL
2002 - round 6 - Paul Ranger, round 8 - Ryan Craig
2003 - rounds 4 - 9 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL
2004 - round 9 - Nick Tarnasky
2005 - rounds 4 - 7 = no players on the Lightning or in NHL.

So those invaluable players would be Ranger and Craig.

How many of these guys are still in the NHL and playing for other teams?

Answer - I believe the answer is only Tarnasky - he got us a 5th round pick.

So in the 7 years of drafts that should be laying the foundation for the team, we have Ranger, R2, Craig and a 5th round pick next year.
What happened to Lundin, Mihalik, Smaby, Ranger, Ramo, Smolenak, Jones, Norrena???

All have spent some time in the NHL and are either still developing, on the team, or have been traded. Oh wait they dont count do they

And that is without including players like Rogers, Koshechkin, Keller, Wessbecker or Lawrence who while they may not have played a game yet could well do.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2009, 07:00 PM
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You said that to evaluate the drafts I had to also count the players that the Lightning drafted that were on other teams. Other than Tarns - SHOW ME WHO THEY ARE

You said that there were later round picks during these 7 years other than the 2 that I have given you that were invaluable - SHOW ME WHO THEY ARE

I've been reading the folks who run this site from when they were with HF and I always respect their opinions. But ever since the days of HF, there have always been a list of players that we drafted who were touted as future NHL players. But the results are that in the 7 year period, this team has drafted 4 NHLers. So to answer your question, until they make it - they don't count.

Lundin 2004 draft - In the minors
Mihalak - 2005 draft - still in the minors on emergency call up
Smaby - 2003 draft - by now he should be playing regularly and he still isn't
Ranger - I've counted him throughout this discussion
Ramo - 2004 draft - struggling in the minors up on an emergency call
Smolenak 2005 draft - in the minors
Jones - 2005 draft - in the minors

Anyone who has been drafted during the past 3 years "COULD" play someday. The point is, and you seem to want to completly ignore it, is that the 7 drafts that should have produced nhl players by now haven't. This isn't maybe someday, someone that the team drafted could someday play somewhere.

And yes, I've read Pete's analysis. Pete knows more about this stuff, than I ever will, but...I can't agree with him that obtaining a couple of 3rd line players and a top 3 defenseman in 7 years is average drafting. Hopefully some of the guys you talk about will make it, but right now the history and facts are what they are.

Chad - I've agreed with you that Dudley was an absolute disaster at the draft and I gave Feaster a pass for a long time because those drafts only produced R2. But Feaster took over in 2002 and while it was certainly less sucky and he traded three #1 picks, those 2002, 2003 and 2004 drafts should have produced more than it has.
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2009, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
You said that to evaluate the drafts I had to also count the players that the Lightning drafted that were on other teams. Other than Tarns - SHOW ME WHO THEY ARE

You said that there were later round picks during these 7 years other than the 2 that I have given you that were invaluable - SHOW ME WHO THEY ARE

I've been reading the folks who run this site from when they were with HF and I always respect their opinions. But ever since the days of HF, there have always been a list of players that we drafted who were touted as future NHL players. But the results are that in the 7 year period, this team has drafted 4 NHLers. So to answer your question, until they make it - they don't count.

Lundin 2004 draft - In the minors
Mihalak - 2005 draft - still in the minors on emergency call up
Smaby - 2003 draft - by now he should be playing regularly and he still isn't
Ranger - I've counted him throughout this discussion
Ramo - 2004 draft - struggling in the minors up on an emergency call
Smolenak 2005 draft - in the minors
Jones - 2005 draft - in the minors

Anyone who has been drafted during the past 3 years "COULD" play someday. The point is, and you seem to want to completly ignore it, is that the 7 drafts that should have produced nhl players by now haven't. This isn't maybe someday, someone that the team drafted could someday play somewhere.

And yes, I've read Pete's analysis. Pete knows more about this stuff, than I ever will, but...I can't agree with him that obtaining a couple of 3rd line players and a top 3 defenseman in 7 years is average drafting. Hopefully some of the guys you talk about will make it, but right now the history and facts are what they are.

Chad - I've agreed with you that Dudley was an absolute disaster at the draft and I gave Feaster a pass for a long time because those drafts only produced R2. But Feaster took over in 2002 and while it was certainly less sucky and he traded three #1 picks, those 2002, 2003 and 2004 drafts should have produced more than it has.
Players that have been invaluable are Ramo and Lundin, last year they both played great and so what they are in the minors now, they both contributed to the team. Also I dont know what your point is about players being on an emergency call up, Smaby is and he looks like he belongs, I mean Schneider in Van is on an emergency call up...doesnt mean he isnt ready to play in the NHL.

I have to ask in that last of players most of whom are still in the minors are there any you dont think will ever play in the NHL again? If not why not include them?
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