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  #20131  
Old 11-17-2019, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
Ah, ok, so in order to be considered Direct Institutional Racism, a government must drop the N-word in their legislation. Got it. (hyperbole on purpose)

Institutional Racism exists. It's codified in law. Those laws don't expressly use racial epithets in their texts. The New Jim Crow is an accepted reality. While the KKK isn't mass murdering folks under color of law, all of the things I mentioned and more are the result of real legislation that doesn't expressly target people on the basis of race or gender, the effects are undoubtedly racist. Thus, Direct Intentional Institutional Racism exists. Just because the racist have gotten more savvy in their language, doesn't mean that the bills they write and enforce aren't intentionally racist by design. I don't see the point in arguing vapid semantic points when clearly the intent of the_narrow_ways OP was to point out that systemic institutional racism still exists. They're right. It does.


Ok, so you agree with me
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  #20132  
Old 11-17-2019, 08:47 PM
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Ok, so you agree with me
I agree that the laws, while not targetting specific races or genders in their wording, are expressly intended to effect specific races or genders. Thus, Direct & Intentional Institutional Racism.

It'd be hard to argue that Abortion legislation is designed to affect men, right?

So if you want to claim semantic internet points, go for it. You just lose a bunch of real life points by sounding like a Racism Apologist.
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Last edited by ZeykShade; 11-17-2019 at 08:51 PM.
  #20133  
Old 11-17-2019, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
I agree that the laws, while not targetting specific races or genders in their wording, are expressly intended to effect specific races or genders. Thus, Direct & Intentional Institutional Racism.

It'd be hard to argue that Abortion legislation is designed to affect men, right?
I agree that there is institutionalized racism. Can you acknowledge that targeted, government enforced racism no longer exists? There are no more whites only water fountains. Give credit to abolishing Jim Crow.

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It'd be hard to argue that Abortion legislation is designed to affect men, right?
Abortion laws do affect men, and the pro-choice movement would do well to acknowledge that. I just think a woman's right to choose is more important than what a man wants.
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  #20134  
Old 11-17-2019, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
I agree that there is institutionalized racism. Can you acknowledge that targeted, government enforced racism no longer exists? There are no more whites only water fountains. Give credit to abolishing Jim Crow.



Abortion laws do affect men, and the pro-choice movement would do well to acknowledge that. I just think a woman's right to choose is more important than what a man wants.
You're intentionally missing my point. Government enforced racism does still exist. Just because we changed the bathrooms, water fountains, beaches, lunch counters, buses, etc. doesn't mean that the government doesn't enforce racism. Intentional Institutionalized racism still persists. Signage or not.

Read the tweet thread I linked earlier by the congressional candidate. He specifically mentions the erosion of the advances Boomers made in the 60s and 70s. You're arguing semantics, I'm arguing effects. Your argument is pointless if it's to "give credit to ending Jim Crow" when Jim Crow is alive and well, he's just more smooth about how he goes about his business.
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  #20135  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
You're intentionally missing my point. Government enforced racism does still exist. Just because we changed the bathrooms, water fountains, beaches, lunch counters, buses, etc. doesn't mean that the government doesn't enforce racism. Intentional Institutionalized racism still persists. Signage or not.

Read the tweet thread I linked earlier by the congressional candidate. He specifically mentions the erosion of the advances Boomers made in the 60s and 70s. You're arguing semantics, I'm arguing effects. Your argument is pointless if it's to "give credit to ending Jim Crow" when Jim Crow is alive and well, he's just more smooth about how he goes about his business.
Do you believe that slavery ended in 1865? If not, when do you believe that slavery ended?
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  #20136  
Old 11-17-2019, 11:23 PM
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I’m firmly with Zeyk on this one. No surprise that the guy who wouldn’t back down from his vehement defense of confederate statues is being deliberately obtuse ... again. Not a persuasive debate strategy.

Here, check out this book. It’s called “The new Jim Crow: Mass incarceration in the age of colorblindness” Its 4 bucks on Apple Books.

http://newjimcrow.com/
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  #20137  
Old 11-17-2019, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeykShade View Post
For you to state that "it doesn't" exist ignores easily visible and current evidence to the contrary. I want you to counter these facts and explain them by some other means.
Thanks Zeyk, you're much better at this than I am. Nobody is arguing that Jim Crow laws are officially abolished, but that isn't the point. As I said earlier, on paper Jim Crow laws are gone, but the reality is that they aren't. Is the official abolishment of those laws good, damn right it is, but they're ongoing effects are painfully obvious.
  #20138  
Old 11-18-2019, 07:03 AM
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I’m firmly with Zeyk on this one. No surprise that the guy who wouldn’t back down from his vehement defense of confederate statues is being deliberately obtuse ... again. Not a persuasive debate strategy.

Here, check out this book. It’s called “The new Jim Crow: Mass incarceration in the age of colorblindness” Its 4 bucks on Apple Books.

http://newjimcrow.com/
Let's all act surprised that you'd chime in to take the opposite position of me, as if that were ever in question
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  #20139  
Old 11-18-2019, 08:42 AM
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Let's all act surprised that you'd chime in to take the opposite position of me, as if that were ever in question
“Aw, boo hoo! You guys are making me argue on merits!”

Fuck off with your dismissing, disqualifying bullshit. It’s weakness.
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  #20140  
Old 11-18-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by the_narrow_way View Post
Thanks Zeyk, you're much better at this than I am. Nobody is arguing that Jim Crow laws are officially abolished, but that isn't the point. As I said earlier, on paper Jim Crow laws are gone, but the reality is that they aren't. Is the official abolishment of those laws good, damn right it is, but they're ongoing effects are painfully obvious.
I agree with this. That's different than what you said earlier, that they were only gone "on paper".

Calling today's laws "The New Jim Crow" is an attempt to sensationalize our laws and marginalizes the massive landscape changes that occurred after Jim Crow was abolished, as if it changed nothing. "New" is the key word, Jim Crow is dead. It's akin to calling capitalism "The New Slavery", well sure, it kinda sorta is so let's call it that? This is the argument being laid out by those who want to argue semantics that Jim Crow isn't really gone. Zeyk won't miss an opportunity to paint this landscape for us, it's how he backwards rationalizes his militant views of today's socio-economic system.

I get it, there are residual effects that are still needing to be weeded out of the system. There is a vicious cycle of unintentional racism(that's a form of institutional racism for those scoring at home) due to mass incarceration. How do you fix that? Should consequences and jail time not be enforced? If you are thinking "of course it should, but let's figure out other ways to help end the cycle of the mass incarceration of minorities", I agree with you. Zeyk would argue that we simply change the laws to make them less impactful to minorities. How do you tackle all of the other various other problems with institutional racism? Education gaps, average income gaps, etc.? Should we give minorities huge settlements of reparations or doctor their test scores to get them into higher Universities? That's fine if you do, I support a candidate who is on record as saying reparations would be what is right. I don't think we should.

This is why I reject the idea that Jim Crow is still in effect. By saying that it is, you(not you per say) are trying to give yourself justification to ignore/attack laws with well reasoned motivations and call those who defend them racists.
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