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  #18631  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:47 PM
Flycoon Flycoon is offline
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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
What Burn said. Whatís the plan for new illegal immigrants, how do you make sure there isnít another 10 million undocumented peopleís living here.
If I had a bit of Trump in my DNA, I'd make up some idiotic number; I won't.

A fairly large % of the non citizens are those who arrived via visa/work permit and simply stayed. This is largely ignored as they may not be brown. Short of implanting a tracking chip in these people, this is an extremely difficult population to track.
  #18632  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
You can address climate change and immigration.
If you are Republican, you can address neither. Unless you want to get primaried.
  #18633  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BurnTHalO View Post
I'll admit I'm not expert, but is the issue really people coming from Mexico? I thought it was the Central American countries an they simply travel through Mexico (the ones we cut money off to like 4 months back). I also thought the funding actually went to non-profits down there for the most part (again, not my expertise as immigration just is far down my list of concerns). But it just seems to me the fix is not the borders, it's fixing the reasons why the people are coming. If you fix that, you will significantly cut down the people coming, and then you can adequately handle anything at the actual borders.
As far as I know you are correct. Mexico isn't perfect, but immigration flows through Mexico and they are making tremendous strides to reduce corruption and reduce income inequality. It also makes a lot of sense to use them as a buffer for migrants because they align culturally and speak the same language, I can entertain the idea of helping them out. However, the bulk of the nations in Central and South America have tremendous income inequality and there is corruption everywhere, sending them aid just subsidizes the unfair and oppressive system in place.

You also face the bigger existential problem, and that is that the bottom 1% of Americans are still in the top 1% of people in the world. Trying to change that is akin to spitting into a bottomless bucket. As we progress more towards universal healthcare, free college, and UBI, there is just too much carrot for migrants not to want to come into the states. We can't stop people from wanting to migrate to a better life unless we just aren't any better than where they already are.

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Originally Posted by pete View Post
Conceivably you should have an orderly, revamped system at the border for registering folks for work permits, getting in the system for paying payroll and other taxes, and starting them on a pathway to citizenship that is transparent and simple enough that eventually you don't see the crush of refugees trying to come here for humanitarian reasons. It will take a few years for everything to normalize and settle down like that, but that would be the end goal.

What remains won't be "illegal immigration" so much as it'll be actual criminals (drug mules, etc.) who can be handled as a standard law enforcement action by the federal authorities. You shouldn't need detainment camps and byzantine walls for the remaining bad actors (you shouldn't ever need byzantine walls).
Sounds great. I still think that part of that is making sure our border is 100% secure. The number of people doesn't matter, the quality of the people absolutely does, and a huge chunk of Americans would support widening the gate if it meant that those coming over weren't ambiguous and were on the same team. Democrats need to do a better job of selling legal immigrantion as being tremendously beneficial to America. They've been schooled by Republicans who've been able to blur the lines between illegal and legal immigrants and paint immigrants as thieves.
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  #18634  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by the_narrow_way View Post
Step one would be to stop our businesses from giving them jobs. If they can't get any work then they lose a big incentive to immigrate.
Capitalism denies this as a solution. I'm surprised that regulations prohibiting these practices haven't been stripped from law.
  #18635  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
I'd just like to point out that several days have passed since Tdi tried to paint the state of Virginia as out-and-out baby killers. And, when confronted with the actual facts of the recent Virginia law, which still requires a doctor's sign off for a late term abortion needed for the health of the mother...

Nothing.

No acknowledgement of facts. No debate. No nothing. He just moved on to the next alt-right bomb throwing exercise.

If you want to argue that abortion should be 100% illegal even in cases where the health of the mother is endangered, have at it. The vast majority of Americans will disagree with that extreme position, or the extreme position that any woman should be forced to carry their attacker's baby to term in the case of rape or incest as in the recent Alabama law, but if you want to debate that then fine.

What I can't abide by is the continuing dishonesty of someone who engages in seemingly nothing but this kind of extreme bomb-throwing, like calling people baby murderers, and then refusing to engage in any kind of honest intellectual argument about what they said when called on it.

I've never once in over a dozen years on this board had to kick someone off of it, but at a certain point I may just have to accede to wishes of the many people here who (rightfully) don't believe this MB should be a platform for the kind of extremist astroturfing and blatant trolling that Tdi engages in.
Ban the mother fucker.
  #18636  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Flycoon View Post
If I had a bit of Trump in my DNA, I'd make up some idiotic number; I won't.

A fairly large % of the non citizens are those who arrived via visa/work permit and simply stayed. This is largely ignored as they may not be brown. Short of implanting a tracking chip in these people, this is an extremely difficult population to track.
That isn't a good thing
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  #18637  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Flycoon View Post
If you are Republican, you can address neither. Unless you want to get primaried.
We all already know who the Republican candidate will be in 2020, I'm curious who the Democratic candidate will be.
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  #18638  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:56 PM
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Donnie D Donnie D is offline
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
I'd just like to point out that several days have passed since Tdi tried to paint the state of Virginia as out-and-out baby killers. And, when confronted with the actual facts of the recent Virginia law, which still requires a doctor's sign off for a late term abortion needed for the health of the mother...

Nothing.

No acknowledgement of facts. No debate. No nothing. He just moved on to the next alt-right bomb throwing exercise.

If you want to argue that abortion should be 100% illegal even in cases where the health of the mother is endangered, have at it. The vast majority of Americans will disagree with that extreme position, or the extreme position that any woman should be forced to carry their attacker's baby to term in the case of rape or incest as in the recent Alabama law, but if you want to debate that then fine.

What I can't abide by is the continuing dishonesty of someone who engages in seemingly nothing but this kind of extreme bomb-throwing, like calling people baby murderers, and then refusing to engage in any kind of honest intellectual argument about what they said when called on it.

I've never once in over a dozen years on this board had to kick someone off of it, but at a certain point I may just have to accede to wishes of the many people here who (rightfully) don't believe this MB should be a platform for the kind of extremist astroturfing and blatant trolling that Tdi engages in.
Iíd just let those who want to, to block him.
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  #18639  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Donnie D View Post
Iíd just let those who want to, to block him.
The drivel trickles down when anyone responds and quotes.

Ban him. There is undoubtedly a place for him on FB and Reddit.
  #18640  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:03 PM
Flycoon Flycoon is offline
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Originally Posted by RSchmitz View Post
We all already know who the Republican candidate will be in 2020, I'm curious who the Democratic candidate will be.
Anyone's guess at this point.

4 years ago Trump was comedy relief; not so much now.
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