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  #761  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:14 AM
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I agree about Bettman (both that he needs to go and won't)
It depends on if the fans come back after all the traveshamockery goings on. No fans? maybe Bettman has sung his last Cantata. I for one cannot believe that he would retain his job after such a terrible record with the labor faction of life in the NHL. But then again, I can't believe they're having ANOTHER lockout 7 years after losing a whole season to.... a lockout. WTF, over?
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  #762  
Old 11-24-2012, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
Observation, similar as: "Always" is one of those funny words. There have always been labor disagreements--opportunities to make it all about money--but they haven't always ended in strike or lockout. We're up to two in a row now.
My point was that it's naive to think anything but money would be the primary concern of all parties involved in a professional sport. The infrequency or absence of lockouts prior to the modern era (90s until now) doesn't diminish that. The league had far more leverage in the decades prior to the large growth spurts it has undergone. That didn't prevent Ted Lindsay (think living and playing in the midst of the ongoing wars in the auto industry rubbed off on him?) and Doug Harvey from trying to unionize the players, quite unsuccessfully (there was a movie made about this in the 90s, Net Worth).

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When I posted my silly romanticized mythology (which really is one of the big things hockey is/was/has been about for some folks, esp. if you've ever played the game or been to a Game 7), I was considering how, until 2005, the Stanley Cup had been contested and won at least once every year since its creation--except for 1919.
I've "played" and followed the game for a long time and I love its rich traditions (which, to be clear, I don't think are "silly" in and of themselves) as much as the next diehard. I'm equally frustrated and of course I'd love it if achieving labor peace didn't have to involve throngs of lawyers, seemingly endless rounds of public posturing or be negotiated so frequently. I do, however, think it's a bit silly to lament that the primary parties involved in a multi-billion dollar business won't put aside their principal differences for sentimental reasons.

Last edited by Mike; 11-24-2012 at 10:35 AM.
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  #763  
Old 11-24-2012, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike View Post
I do, however, think it's a bit silly to lament that the primary parties involved in a multi-billion dollar business won't put aside their principal differences for sentimental reasons.
Man, I always thought franchises folded and/or moved because they just didn't care about winning trophies anymore.
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  #764  
Old 11-24-2012, 03:40 PM
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Lol Avery86,that is only true in the case of the panturds...great comment.
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  #765  
Old 11-25-2012, 10:07 AM
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Me: Dammit, they used to NEVER cancel seasons -- even about money.
Chorus: Don't be naive, of course they did; it's always been about money. (Huh? Oh.) Well...still, it's always been all about money!

I get it. Personally, though, I really like to watch the playoffs, where the competitive intensity gets ratcheted up to a fever pitch as they play for the mythic, symbolic Stanley Cup, more than the regular season where they merely play for pay. There's no requirement to agree; to each his own. Those springtime games are just the ones I happen to prefer, and if they cancel the season again, obviously there won't be any playoff games to enjoy. No passion, no Cup, no celebrating.

Really since it is all about money the NHLPA should be bargaining hard for the players to get paid during the playoffs. After all, this is when the highest quality action occurs, and among the best players, with all games decided by the actual teams, in full OT periods. Games are all sellouts, the ticket & parking prices jacked up through the rafters. When else to expect a bonus? Take a hard line here and refuse to play for free. It makes no fiscal sense whatsoever that the players would strive with their very lives, pouring their heart and soul, blood and guts, teeth and character out on the ice night after night for up to two solid months, just for an outside chance at some dopey trophy they've been dreaming about winning since age 5, as if winning the Cup were their primary concern.

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...it's naive to think anything but money would be the primary concern of all parties involved in a professional sport.
It's easy to imagine Marty St. Louis, 36, lying on his bed, gazing up at the ceiling, wishing and yearning for some way to hopefully try to get back to playing the games, so he can maybe get lucky and take one last run at.......making some more money? Or is it about that sappy mythological trophy thingie again? See, it keeps rearing its ugly hollow silvery head...like me

Historically, winning the Stanley Cup hasn't always been about receiving money. In the early years, the Cup was contested by amateur clubs paying to play, freezing their asses off in pads so thin they were transparent, getting the crap pounded out of them, just for...that trophy. Sure, today it's a business and both the owners and players get to make money, which is great...but it's that passion that separates hockey from all other pursuits, that transcends money, that makes the game worthwhile IMHO, the absence of which was the subject of lament
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Silver lining of Grubergate scandal: It reveals graphically the hateful contempt harbored by the central authoritarian controllers for even their own supporters. Democrats can disprove Gruber's repeated assertions about their being stupid, but only if they repudiate the "ACA" sham and the criminal fraud that was committed against Democrat voters in order to dupe them into supporting it, and finally join responsible Republicans in killing and burying the thing.

Last edited by Top Shelf; 11-25-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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  #766  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:07 PM
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I miss hockey. That's basically the message here.
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  #767  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by NoSpin View Post
I miss hockey. That's basically the message here.
This.
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Silver lining of Grubergate scandal: It reveals graphically the hateful contempt harbored by the central authoritarian controllers for even their own supporters. Democrats can disprove Gruber's repeated assertions about their being stupid, but only if they repudiate the "ACA" sham and the criminal fraud that was committed against Democrat voters in order to dupe them into supporting it, and finally join responsible Republicans in killing and burying the thing.
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  #768  
Old 11-26-2012, 10:29 AM
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top shelf and mike, you guys are both right. The game has changed significantly from a business perspective in the last 20 years. The players are fortunate they are unionized or what kind of deal would they be getting then? From where I'm sitting it APPEARS that whenever the CBA expires, the owners go for a cash grab- how else can you explain a lockout after what by all agree were record revenues in the last 6 years? Are they entitled to operate that way? Absolutely yes. Does it make sense from anyone else's standpoint in the game? Coaches, players, fans, vendors, ice girls, or mascots? Nope. It has been my position all along that somehow there has to be a better way to negotiate. I find it interesting that both parties agree that a federal arbitor is not neccessary yet. WTF, over? Clearly there is a massive disconnect between the two parties and their fans. Does anyone in this room think that a federal arbitrator would slow down the process?? JFC. The insanity of it all is overwhelming. They JUST HAD A LOCKOUT 6 YEARS AGO...., that they lost a WHOLE season to. When they lose this season too, how much revenue is that? About 4 billion??? BILLION...how Bettman even has a job I'll never know.

Last edited by sandalskate; 11-26-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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  #769  
Old 11-26-2012, 01:13 PM
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Today's update... if you want to call it one

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Nick Cotsonika‏@cotsonika

PA says it's always ready to meet. Daly says he expects talks to resume this week. Let's hope that means NHL has something new to say.
Two things to keep in mind. One - Decertification is gaining steam. Two - Board of Governors meeting is next week - Dec. 5th
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  #770  
Old 11-26-2012, 03:25 PM
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Well, well, well... paint my ass green and slap me upside the head...

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Pierre LeBrun‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Federal mediator now involved in NHL/NHLPA labor talks. More to come.
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Jesse Spector‏@jessespector

Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service Director George Cohen says he's had informal talks with NHL and NHLPA.

Jesse Spector‏@jessespector

Cohen: "The ongoing negotiations will now be conducted under our auspices." Three mediators assigned!
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