THe 2012 CBA Thread

[Mike]

Originally Posted by pete

Bettman's got to go after this. Even Don Corleone knew war is bad for business, and the NHL and NHLPA have been in a constant state of war for a decade now. Hard to place equal blame on Fehr. He wasn't around for the previous two lockouts. The constant has been Bettman.

Very true.

Originally Posted by aapbolt

How sad, it looks like the players moved, but I guess the owners want all or nothing, and it appears they are getting nothing.

The players "moved" but not as much as you'd think. Fehr and the union may have crowed loudly about the players accepting the league's demand for their share to be set as a % of HRR but the proposal they peddled today included a provision that effectively guaranteed the players' share by preventing the actual dollar amounts from falling in Years 2 through 5 REGARDLESS of what happened with revenues. They had to know the league would balk at assuming all of the risk in the deal.

That said, I'm of the opinion that, despite all of the rhetoric and no matter how despondent some of the players speaking out may sound, today is actually a step forward. The union's proposal may have been disingenuous, but both sides are now singing approximately the same tune.

[Top Shelf]

Originally Posted by Mike

I'm of the opinion that, despite all of the rhetoric and no matter how despondent some of the players speaking out may sound, today is actually a step forward.

Dang Mike, I think we all need a jumbo size of whatever it is you're using to defog your black & blue-colored glasses

Mine are still keeping me from seeing any hope of hockey till next fall...which sucks because there are many people for whom religion, drugs, basketball and sitcoms just don't work, who badly need this salve for the soul to distract them from the real-life horrors of what's happened, happening, and about to happen

Oh well, as this is Thanksgiving let us give thanks that, at least, this stupidity is giving real financial relief to folks who otherwise would have spent/wasted hundreds or thousands of dollars on hockey games, parking, concessions and related merchandise

Let us also give thanks that we are not among the hundreds or thousands who are without jobs or have a bleak Xmas before them because they normally work in the NHL hockey "arena"

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Top Shelf

Dang Mike, I think we all need a jumbo size of whatever it is you're using to defog your black & blue-colored glasses. Mine are still keeping me from seeing any hope of hockey till next fall.

I didn't give you wishful thinking and nor did I discount the possibility of the season might eventually get cancelled. I just see yesterday as another round of theatrics, particularly on the side of the union, but a step forward, however incremental, nonetheless. You don't think there was progress yesterday? The players have agreed to accept a share based on a % of HRR and the league's make-whole provision, which is, in itself, progress, but with the caveats that that their slice of the pie will not decrease and the make-whole payments would have to be beefed up. The NHL, of course, doesn't want to concede to those caveats and seems determined to see the union capitulate. The show must go on, at least for a bit.

From a macroscopic perspective, both sides are making a mountain out of a molehill; they aren't as far apart as their blusterous public posturing would have you believe. Also, if past serves as any precedent, it's still premature to become despondent. The remainder of the 04-05 season was finally scrapped in February, for example.

[pete]

The damage is already done, though. The NHL has hurt its brand for a generation. This should have been the year the NHL made big inroads following a big market club winning it all. Instead, hockey is now irrelevant and people don't care that the sport is gone. Worse, most aren't going to care when it comes back. Why get emotionally invested in something when you know that every 5-7 years you're going to lose at least half a season because there is no labor peace.

[Flycoon]

Originally Posted by pete

The damage is already done, though. The NHL has hurt its brand for a generation. This should have been the year the NHL made big inroads following a big market club winning it all. Instead, hockey is now irrelevant and people don't care that the sport is gone. Worse, most aren't going to care when it comes back. Why get emotionally invested in something when you know that every 5-7 years you're going to lose at least half a season because there is no labor peace.

No argument from me. I may attend the occasional game when I pick up cheap tickets but I will no longer purchase season tickets. Too many other interests without the aggravation of this sort of crap every 5 to 7 years.

[aapbolt]

Unfortunately, you are right Pete. While the hardcore fans will still come back, it is the occasional fan who will not come back or rarely come back. I mean no offense to you Fly and appreciate where you are coming from and there are hardcore fans who will do as you do , but the big loss will be of those who are just getting into the sport and are now finding other things to spend their money on. A recession is a stupid time for a lockout.

[Top Shelf]

The one crystal clear and indisputable message coming out of this is simple:

To the owners, the players and their agents, continuing this dispute is more important than than their reputations, more important than pleasing the public, more important than the game of hockey, and more important than trying to win the Stanley Cup. If the Cup were more important, they'd have fixed this BS long ago. But it just isn't.

And guess what. In 2018 or whenever the next "new deal" expires, it won't be again. It'll take its rightful seat in the back of the big money bus, where it'll pee on the floor in pointless protest as the haggling lawyers drive off the cliff

End of Story

[Coldrice]

Announcement soon (next couple of hours) that they'll kill schedule thru mid December - possibly end of Dec and the 2013 NHL ASG.

Effectively kills any microscopic chance some folks held of a secretive "life-support" plan for the Winter Classic.

Both sides "in touch" but no meetings planned at this time. Will continue "contact" over the weekend, seeking something early next week

Next on deck (discussion topic) - Decertification...

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Top Shelf

The one crystal clear and indisputable message coming out of this is simple:

To the owners, the players and their agents, continuing this dispute is more important than than their reputations, more important than pleasing the public, more important than the game of hockey, and more important than trying to win the Stanley Cup. If the Cup were more important, they'd have fixed this BS long ago. But it just isn't.

And guess what. In 2018 or whenever the next "new deal" expires, it won't be again. It'll take its rightful seat in the back of the big money bus, where it'll pee on the floor in pointless protest as the haggling lawyers drive off the cliff

End of Story

Is this really a revelation? Money talks, folks. It always has. Frustration is warranted and all parties involved deserve to be scrutinized for how they conduct their business but you shouldn't begrudge players, their agents and the owners not putting aside their worldly concerns for some pure love of the game or for the sake of a romanticized mythology surrounding a sports trophy.

[astro]

Originally Posted by Coldrice

Announcement soon (next couple of hours) that they'll kill schedule thru mid December - possibly end of Dec and the 2013 NHL ASG.

Effectively kills any microscopic chance some folks held of a secretive "life-support" plan for the Winter Classic.

Both sides "in touch" but no meetings planned at this time. Will continue "contact" over the weekend, seeking something early next week

Next on deck (discussion topic) - Decertification...

I've lost all hope for this season to be "saved"

It's frustrating for me to see that a season was lost and the owners got pretty much exactly what they wanted in the now expired CBA. Now, they are asking for more concessions from the players and unwilling to negotiate with the players. I know the players aren't innocent in this either. The first proposal from the owners was a slap in the face to players and wasn't a good starting point for negotiations.

Just a little bit of history of why I side with the players:

In 2006, I've personally gone through a labor strife between the FAA and the air traffic controllers union. Controllers got shafted when the FAA exposed a loophole in the law and forced their latest proposal onto the workforce. Like the NHL, the FAA was unwilling to negotiate with the controllers. Not until Obama was elected did the contract issues get rectified. The FAA was forced back to negotiate and a mediator was brought in to fix the issues that they couldn't agree upon. It's hard for me to side with management after that.

Coldrice, the owners only need 8 owners to shoot down a proposal, right?