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WaiverWire 07-25-2014 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flycoon (Post 172484)
Come on now. There are certain "beliefs" that preclude credibility for in-duh-viduals. Like:

Non-whites are inherently inferior to whites
Women should not have the same rights as men
Blacks are all lazy, shiftless, and live in a culture that encourages not working
Latins are all border jumpers looking for a free hand out and a place to birth their legions of kids to suck off the gubmint teat
Obama is a Kenyan Muslim
A novel by a Russian atheist is a good basis for economic theory and practice
The "framers" intended that we be a Christian nation

As has been stated many times, everyone is entitled to their opinion. BUT, they are not entitled to their own facts.

But you know what Flycoon, if they belief their facts who are we to dish them? We do not have to accept their facts as the truth just like we don't have to pay them any attention.

WaiverWire 07-25-2014 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeykShade (Post 172485)
So we're in agreement. There's nothing wrong with being ignorant on issues. The problem with the right in America is, they intentionally stay ignorant because their team is their team and they've been scared into voting against their best interests. What's wrong with not knowing or having an opinion until you've studied the issue at least more than flipping on your favorite shit-licking Fox News Talking Head for 10minutes?

Pretty laughable that you'd pick "1 or 2" as your numbers to use in an example when an entire swath of the country is ignorant on hundreds if not thousands of issues because they live in the Conservative Echo Chamber and are Terry Schiavo'd the Right Wing Ignorance on a daily basis.

They'd rather be 100% wrong and be made to feel better than others than admit they don't know. Their Representatives have to be strong-willed (willfully ignorant) and play to the lizard brain of their constituents. If they don't, they get primaried into retirement from the even further bat-shit right.


Now IMHO you are being petty. Numbers??? So I used the numbers 1 & 2. Maybe I just didn't want to type a whole lot of numbers. But NOOOOOOO, you try to make a dig. Petty petty petty.

No I am not in agreement with you. You think if your are ignorant on 1 issue you are ignorant on all.

Everyone is ignorant on something. Some may think they are not, but they are.

ZeykShade 07-25-2014 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaiverWire (Post 172488)
Now IMHO you are being petty. Numbers??? So I used the numbers 1 & 2. Maybe I just didn't want to type a whole lot of numbers. But NOOOOOOO, you try to make a dig. Petty petty petty.

No I am not in agreement with you. You think if your are ignorant on 1 issue you are ignorant on all.

Everyone is ignorant on something. Some may think they are not, but they are.

Wrong.

I've never stated anything like that. Now, if a person continues to be willfully ignorant when presented with facts that completely destroy their position, it's a whole other ballgame. The Tea Partiers and Libertarians and Right Wingers aren't ignorant on 1-2 things. They're ignorant on a great many.

A few have been listed here already. It's a fucking disease at this point. It isn't just them holding their outdated and medieval opinions to themselves anymore. It's them standing in the way of almost every bit of progress because they can't get past the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt they're force-fed daily.

ZeykShade 07-25-2014 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie D (Post 172489)
I think you have an interesting list, but even within those I find room to debate. For example, I think it was clear that the country was established as a non denomination country, but it was set up with strong Christan values. Jefferson talked about a creator and there was a whole lot of prayer meetings among the group that wrote the declaration.

Quote:

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

Flycoon 07-25-2014 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaiverWire (Post 172486)
But you know what Flycoon, if they belief their facts who are we to dish them? We do not have to accept their facts as the truth just like we don't have to pay them any attention.

Disagree. You can not enable these types by ignoring them. That empowers them.

Look at how well ignoring such people/governments has worked out. Hitler and Mussolini were treated as crankpots when they first appeared and we know how that worked out.

Flycoon 07-25-2014 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie D (Post 172489)
I think you have an interesting list, but even within those I find room to debate. For example, I think it was clear that the country was established as a non denomination country, but it was set up with strong Christan values. Jefferson talked about a creator and there was a whole lot of prayer meetings among the group that wrote the declaration.

Christian values and talk of a creator are not equivalent to being a "Christian Nation".

Freedom form religion as well as freedom of religion was the intent as I see it.

WaiverWire 07-25-2014 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeykShade (Post 172491)
Wrong.

I've never stated anything like that. Now, if a person continues to be willfully ignorant when presented with facts that completely destroy their position, it's a whole other ballgame. The Tea Partiers and Libertarians and Right Wingers aren't ignorant on 1-2 things. They're ignorant on a great many.

A few have been listed here already. It's a fucking disease at this point. It isn't just them holding their outdated and medieval opinions to themselves anymore. It's them standing in the way of almost every bit of progress because they can't get past the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt they're force-fed daily.

So basically what you are saying is that all republicans, weather right, center or leaning to the left, all tea party members and anyone else that do not share your views are ignorant and wrong? Because it sure sounds that way.

WaiverWire 07-25-2014 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie D (Post 172496)
And while I agree that America is not a Christian country, the elements of many Christian ideals were incorporated. However at the same time any country which allows human slavery fo more that 70 years lacks, in my humble opinion, the most basic of Christian values.

So true Donnie. I grew up in Michigan and I still remember going to several old buildings along the St. Clair River, which borders the US and Canada, on school outings. These places were where the underground railroad assisted the slaves with escaping into Canada. I could never figure out how man could treat someone this way, and still do not understand the mistreatment of others.

pete 07-25-2014 04:32 PM

Quote:

But there are some here that believe if you are ignorant on 1 issue you must be ignorant on all issues.
If you allow yourself to be misled on one issue by certain interests (such as those that control various RW media outlets) there's a high likelihood you're going to be misled on all the issues those certain interests attempt to manipulate the public about.

There's volumes of research that indicate people's political beliefs aren't shaped by reason. They typically form unstated core beliefs (which are really more feelings than well-developed positions on issues) and choose a side early in life, and in today's polarized environment where information is marketed as a commodity they seek out those information outlets that cater toward those core beliefs/feelings. And because the choir is already extremely receptive to an information outlet (having already sought them out to begin with) that information outlet can get away with A LOT of outright fabrications without getting called on it, because it "feels right" to their consumer's core beliefs.

So you get people parroting RW information outlets who say some pretty outright insane things, like Obama's secretly operating FEMA death camps, death panels are going to decide if your grandparents live or die if ACA passes, etc, etc, each of which in isolation seem absolutely insane and yet I've heard otherwise intelligent, educated, wonderful people repeat with 100% belief. And it's not just Obama (although it's gotten exponentially more worse/crazy these days), but you can go back through the "John Kerry shot himself deliberately to get out of Vietnam" to "Al Gore claimed he invented the internet" all the way back to "Bill Clinton had Vince Foster killed," NONE OF WHICH has an iota of truth to it, and yet to this day many people still believe because it "feels right" to people's core beliefs/emotions.

And, none of that gives me warm and fuzzies. I doubt like hell the framers thought, freedom of blissful, self-selected stupidity/insanity/ignorance, was a freedom that belonged in the same basket as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. In fact, I feel pretty safe in saying Thomas Jefferson, founder of a prestigious education institution like UVA which was founded on the bedrock of classical rationalism, would be revolted at the way things have devolved in the country these days.

WaiverWire 07-25-2014 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete (Post 172500)

So you get people parroting RW information outlets who say some pretty outright insane things, like Obama's secretly operating FEMA death camps, death panels are going to decide if your grandparents live or die if ACA passes, etc, etc, each of which in isolation seem absolutely insane and yet I've heard otherwise intelligent, educated, wonderful people repeat with 100% belief. And it's not just Obama (although it's gotten exponentially more worse/crazy these days), but you can go back through the "John Kerry shot himself deliberately to get out of Vietnam" to "Al Gore claimed he invented the internet" all the way back to "Bill Clinton had Vince Foster killed," NONE OF WHICH has an iota of truth to it, and yet to this day many people still believe because it "feels right" to people's core beliefs/emotions.

Just got to love you pete. I find it funny when you only bring up stuff on the right. Like I have always said both sides are to blame. Look no further when Paul Ryan came out with a plan to privatize Medicare. The left ran the below ad in an attempt to scare the seniors.

Throw Granny form the Cliff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGnE83A1Z4U


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