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-   -   Kovalchuk to ... (http://boltprospects.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3234)

chad 02-04-2010 07:13 PM

Kovalchuk to ...
 
Deal going down tonight. Eastern Conference Team. Not the NYR or BOS.


My guess is Jersey. Waddell's been following them.

Dregor, McK and Allen on Twitter as sources.

pete 02-04-2010 07:16 PM

I guess it's possible. Lou rolled the dice on Mogilny back in the day, too.

chad 02-04-2010 07:22 PM

Have to go to a recital... shoot... this is why we have smart-phones.

The Great Zo 02-04-2010 07:23 PM

I have NO idea where they got this from...

...but the Columbus Blue Jackets broadcasters just announced that Kovalchuk has been traded to New Jersey.

I'm not finding this confirmed anywhere. Is the scoop coming from cow-town? :D (And for the record, they announced this at 7:14 PM EST)

Hoek 02-04-2010 07:36 PM

What's everyone's over/under for games until Kovalchuk's first benching?

chad 02-04-2010 07:40 PM

It's like taking a Ferrari through a never-ending school zone.

chad 02-04-2010 07:43 PM

I've seen Oduya coming back. Nothing else yet.

Avery86 02-04-2010 07:46 PM

The official NHL Twitter page is confirming that Kovalchuk is indeed on his way to New Jersey.

No details.

TexasBolt 02-04-2010 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chad (Post 61188)
It's like taking a Ferrari through a never-ending school zone.

Lamiorello must want Lemaire to try and kill himself.

chad 02-04-2010 07:54 PM

Saw oduya, bergfors, tedenby/prospect and 1st. Unconfirmed.

Sean 02-04-2010 08:01 PM

Honestly, rape. No way Kovalchuk signs in that shithole. just IMO

TexasBolt 02-04-2010 08:25 PM

Why would Jersey give away Bergfors? He's like 80% as good as Kovalchuk at 10% of the price. And I agree with Sean, I'd be surprised if he resigns.

Avery86 02-04-2010 08:26 PM

Done.

To NJD: Kovalchuk, Samela

To ATL: Oduya, Bergfors, Cormier, 1st rounder

nutznboltz 02-04-2010 08:27 PM

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=308953

Oduya, Bergfors, Patrice Cormier and a 1st round pick :duh:

Sean 02-04-2010 08:38 PM

Disaster on both ends IMO. NJD is beyond stupid for giving up that many pieces for a guy that I have no doubt in my mind is going to bolt come July 1st. The Devils are done winning cups for awhile.

ATL is stupid for getting a liability like Cormier in a deal for their franchise, getting a high first rounder in the deal and having to add another piece of top of it all. Oduya is meh. Bergfors is really the only quality piece in the deal and we all know those guys are going to bail because who wants to play in ATL?

I feel sorry for our guys having to play against that piece of shit Cormier 8 times a year. He's going to kill someone eventually.

Sean 02-04-2010 08:50 PM

Apparently they samp 2nd rounders as well. So they get a 25-30 first but they give up a 30-35 second.

Lawl. God, as bad as our ownership/management is right now, I'd take it over ATL every single day of the week.

pete 02-04-2010 09:23 PM

I'm telling you, everyone thumbed their nose at the Mogilny deal back in the day and it got Lou a ring in the end. I think a strong organization like Jersey is the only way you can harness a talented goal scorer like Kovalchuk who is such a selfish cancer.

Sotnos 02-04-2010 10:35 PM

NJ obviously (to me) feels they're close to a Cup this year. That's the only thing I can come up with. No way do they cough up the kind of money Kovy will want, not going to happen. They're going for the deep playoff run.

TexasBolt 02-04-2010 11:18 PM

This probably puts them past Buffalo... but are they better than Pittsburgh or Washington? Or Chicago or San Jose or even (and it pisses me off to say this but it could still happen) Detroit?

Sotnos 02-04-2010 11:29 PM

I don't think so, but I think Lamoriello does. Brodeur isn't getting any younger, they don't have too many more kicks at the can imo.

pete 02-04-2010 11:49 PM

Quote:

Brodeur isn't getting any younger,
Bingo. They're trying to squeeze one more ring out of Marty.

The Great Zo 02-05-2010 12:55 AM

The pertinent question -- is this a rental or a mortgage?

Giving up Bergfors for a one-time-shot like this just feels short-sighted. Perhaps an admission that the post-Brodeur era is going to be a rocky road?

Dman21 02-05-2010 07:09 AM

I heard a rumor that he thumbed his nose at $111 million over twelve years??!?! Holy crap that is insane on his part and also on the Trashers for offering that much.

PEIBolt 02-05-2010 08:15 AM

Kovalchuk may only turn out to be a rental but I think Atlanta got hosed. Probably was the best offer they had and Waddell had to do something but geez, losing your franchise player in a weak market for Oduya, etc.? I dunno.

gobolts 02-05-2010 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dman21 (Post 61235)
I heard a rumor that he thumbed his nose at $111 million over twelve years??!?! Holy crap that is insane on his part and also on the Trashers for offering that much.

As much as everyone (not singling you out, Dman) wants to vilify Kovalchuk for not signing—if the figures being thrown about are true—I think he knows he won't make more elsewhere. Simply put, he just doesn't want to play in Atlanta anymore, no matter how much money they throw at him. But make no mistake, he will make A LOT of money wherever he signs this summer.

So I at least give him credit for wanting to win (more than he's used to), and not just be highly paid.

CTLightning26 02-05-2010 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasBolt (Post 61196)
Why would Jersey give away Bergfors? He's like 80% as good as Kovalchuk at 10% of the price. And I agree with Sean, I'd be surprised if he resigns.

Bergfors has a whopping 27 points in 54 games and is -7...He has been getting scratched lately..

He is an avg player at best..

CTLightning26 02-05-2010 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sotnos (Post 61211)
NJ obviously (to me) feels they're close to a Cup this year. That's the only thing I can come up with. No way do they cough up the kind of money Kovy will want, not going to happen. They're going for the deep playoff run.

Exactly...This is a rental..

They gave up an avg-at-best 22-year old swede, a 3-4 d man at best who's making more than he's worth and a pick around 24 or maybe 30th..
Plus, they get serviceable Salmela and probably move from 55 to 35 approximately in the second round..

I think it's an absolute steal for Lou..

Then, after the season, they clear Oduya's two years and 5-6 mil cap space from Kovy (who i think will go back to Russia)

CTLightning26 02-05-2010 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobolts (Post 61238)
As much as everyone (not singling you out, Dman) wants to vilify Kovalchuk for not signing—if the figures being thrown about are true—I think he knows he won't make more elsewhere. Simply put, he just doesn't want to play in Atlanta anymore, no matter how much money they throw at him. But make no mistake, he will make A LOT of money wherever he signs this summer.

So I at least give him credit for wanting to win (more than he's used to), and not just be highly paid.

Huh?

If he never wanted to stay in Atlanta why did he put everyone through the big dance then?
Why didn't he say before the season I dont want to play here?
He was looking for a certain amount of money...

Sotnos 02-05-2010 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PEIBolt (Post 61237)
Kovalchuk may only turn out to be a rental but I think Atlanta got hosed. Probably was the best offer they had and Waddell had to do something but geez, losing your franchise player in a weak market for Oduya, etc.? I dunno.

On the one hand, it's hard to believe he couldn't get more out of Kovy than this. On the other hand, Kovy's unsigned, teams may have seen him as a huge risk to go back to Russia and/or they wanted Waddell taking back a lot of salary so they could fit Kovy in (assuming Atlanta doesn't want that). This may have been the best fit. At least he did better than Florida with Bouwmeester. :D

chad 02-05-2010 09:18 AM

I see this as a win for Jersey, also.

Just because I don't think Bergfors is a star on his own, or will be. I think he'll be a great compliment to someone and with someone, but not someone near Kovalchuck's range.

And I don't really trust Waddell's use of that No.1.

Cormier is a big risk right now, and was projecting out to a 2/3 shut-down center. A good one mind you, but more a mean Jordan Staal than a Mike Richards.

CTLightning26 02-05-2010 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sotnos (Post 61252)
On the one hand, it's hard to believe he couldn't get more out of Kovy than this. On the other hand, Kovy's unsigned, teams may have seen him as a huge risk to go back to Russia and/or they wanted Waddell taking back a lot of salary so they could fit Kovy in (assuming Atlanta doesn't want that). This may have been the best fit. At least he did better than Florida with Bouwmeester. :D

Yeah, I ultimately think LA made the right decision...They should stay on course...Maybe Kovy's price comes down after the season and he wants to go there for a reasonable price.

gobolts 02-05-2010 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTLightning26 (Post 61251)
Huh?

If he never wanted to stay in Atlanta why did he put everyone through the big dance then?
Why didn't he say before the season I dont want to play here?
He was looking for a certain amount of money...

"Huh" right back at you. Why would he or any athlete go public about wanting to leave BEFORE his contract year begins?

There would be no benefit for him if he said these things before the season began, even if he did feel that way. He would be alienating the fans, and even more importantly, he would be alienating his teammates. The guys who feed him the puck so he can score his goals. Sure, the guys in the locker room may get a sense that he doesn't plan to stick around, but if he comes right out and says it, then there's no question about it.

Plus, what if the unthinkable happened and the Thrashers had a great year?

WaiverWire 02-05-2010 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobolts (Post 61238)
As much as everyone (not singling you out, Dman) wants to vilify Kovalchuk for not signing—if the figures being thrown about are true—I think he knows he won't make more elsewhere. Simply put, he just doesn't want to play in Atlanta anymore, no matter how much money they throw at him. But make no mistake, he will make A LOT of money wherever he signs this summer.

So I at least give him credit for wanting to win (more than he's used to), and not just be highly paid.

Will be interesting as to what teams will offer him with the CBA coming up in 2012.

Sotnos 02-05-2010 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTLightning26 (Post 61251)
Huh?

If he never wanted to stay in Atlanta why did he put everyone through the big dance then?
Why didn't he say before the season I dont want to play here?
He was looking for a certain amount of money...

Did you see what they offered him?! No one is going to give him a deal for that long, he's a fool if he wanted more money for fewer years. Actions speak louder than words, if he wanted to stay there he'd have taken that deal.
Quote:

Originally Posted by CTLightning26 (Post 61254)
Yeah, I ultimately think LA made the right decision...

:confused: LA? Do we really know they were involved?

Donnie D 02-05-2010 10:17 AM

Too much is being made over the picks.

New Jersey gave up a #28 and #58 or thereabouts and got back a #40. And I'll bet Lou does more with the #40 than Atlanta does with both of those picks.

Pete is right. They are trying to win another cup before Marty retires. When he goes, Lou may retire with him. They have always relied on the goalie and their system to win. They don't have any game breakers because of where they have drafted and when Marty does go they are going to be facing a number of years to rebuild. For them it's win now and neither one of these pieces are going to be the building blocks of the franchise in the future.

Whether it works or not, time will tell. But this gives Jersey a real shot at beating Washington - and it kept him away from everyone else.

And I think he gets more than $10 million next year in the KHL.

CTLightning26 02-05-2010 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobolts (Post 61259)
"Huh" right back at you. Why would he or any athlete go public about wanting to leave BEFORE his contract year begins?

There would be no benefit for him if he said these things before the season began, even if he did feel that way. He would be alienating the fans, and even more importantly, he would be alienating his teammates. The guys who feed him the puck so he can score his goals. Sure, the guys in the locker room may get a sense that he doesn't plan to stick around, but if he comes right out and says it, then there's no question about it.

Plus, what if the unthinkable happened and the Thrashers had a great year?

All I'm saying is don't give him credit for negotiating and turning down $101 million for 12 years..
It was a useless exercise if he's gonna turn that down..

CTLightning26 02-05-2010 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie D (Post 61269)

And I think he gets more than $10 million next year in the KHL.

Yepp..Cause he ain't getting it here..

gobolts 02-05-2010 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTLightning26 (Post 61273)
All I'm saying is don't give him credit for negotiating and turning down $101 million for 12 years..
It was a useless exercise if he's gonna turn that down..

Except that other teams see that figure. While it won't necessarily mean that they'll offer more than they originally considered, it is possible that they'll revisit their 2010-11 budget and think about perhaps increasing it based on what he's already been offered.

One thing it WON'T do is lower the potential offers he gets this summer.

CTLightning26 02-05-2010 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobolts (Post 61277)
except that other teams see that figure. While it won't necessarily mean that they'll offer more than they originally considered, it is possible that they'll revisit their 2010-11 budget and think about perhaps increasing it based on what he's already been offered.

One thing it won't do is lower the potential offers he gets this summer.

khl...

pete 02-05-2010 02:06 PM

BTW, I applaud Waddell on adding another fine sportsman like Patrice Cormier to the Thrashers organization. He makes Downie look like Ghandi. Way to go, Donny. :thumb:

Avery86 02-05-2010 02:31 PM

I think Kovalchuk's decision to not accept that offer was based more on the fact of Atlanta being awful, all the time, and less of wanting "more" money. I don't like the guy, but even I can have sympathy for a player of his caliber wasting away in a city that doesn't care.

Plus, with that fool of a GM running things ... the writing is on the wall for EVERYONE to see, not just Kovalchuk.

BTW, I find it hilarious that in the conference call after the trade, Waddell claimed that Atlanta could still be buyers at the deadline.

Sotnos 02-05-2010 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avery86 (Post 61326)
BTW, I find it hilarious that in the conference call after the trade, Waddell claimed that Atlanta could still be buyers at the deadline.

I'll believe it when I see it!

I expect them to drop like a stone. If instead this gives them a boost, that'll be an interesting statement to say the least.

Avery86 02-05-2010 03:21 PM

http://i.imgur.com/N2XQ2.jpg

Sean 02-05-2010 03:55 PM

Hahaha. So much win in just one picture.

astro 02-05-2010 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sotnos (Post 61265)

:confused: LA? Do we really know they were involved?

The Kings were somewhat involved. They did contact Waddell about Kovy, but Waddell wanted NHL players. Lombardi offered prospects and picks. Supposedly the deal had to be centered around one of these players - Dustin Brown, Jack Johnson or Wayne Simmonds. Dean was not willing to trade one of those players for a rental.

timothy 02-07-2010 04:58 PM

Watched the HNIC feed of the TAM-CGY game, and Mike Millbury COMPLETELY ripped Don Waddell over his handling of Kovalchuk. Said he waited far too long before trying to move him, and basically said he got completely ripped off by the Devils. It was brutal.

Sotnos 02-07-2010 05:39 PM

Man, it's gotta be bad if Mike Millbury's ripping on you! :D

jason_haas 02-07-2010 05:41 PM

Friedman also snuck in a quiet nod to Kovy taking off because of the ownership troubles.

TexasBolt 02-07-2010 09:32 PM

I have a question (maybe Pete knows this, I think I remember him living in the area). Aren't the Hawks and the Thrashers owned by the same guys? How can one team figure it out and become successful, while the other team continues to fail? They're both under the same paralysis, right?

pete 02-07-2010 10:34 PM

Correct, Atlanta Spirit owns both teams, and Atlanta Spirit was originally a partnership of 3-4 guys (mostly from Boston). The other partners sued one of the partners for trying to act as majority owner even though he wasn't. The passion of the guys in the group has always been the Hawks, and the Hawks are the more financially lucrative of the two teams.

The biggest mistake they've made is not firing Waddell.

jason_haas 02-07-2010 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete (Post 61519)
Correct, Atlanta Spirit owns both teams, and Atlanta Spirit was originally a partnership of 3-4 guys (mostly from Boston). The other partners sued one of the partners for trying to act as majority owner even though he wasn't. The passion of the guys in the group has always been the Hawks, and the Hawks are the more financially lucrative of the two teams.

The biggest mistake they've made is not firing Waddell.

Seriously. I mean even OK and LB canned Melrose after 16 games or whatever it was.

TexasBolt 02-07-2010 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete (Post 61519)
Correct, Atlanta Spirit owns both teams, and Atlanta Spirit was originally a partnership of 3-4 guys (mostly from Boston). The other partners sued one of the partners for trying to act as majority owner even though he wasn't. The passion of the guys in the group has always been the Hawks, and the Hawks are the more financially lucrative of the two teams.

Do they only own the Thrashers for tax purposes and so they can control the arena?

pete 02-07-2010 11:21 PM

It's not that bad. They have made moves over the past few years to try to improve the hockey team. They did sign Antropov and a bunch of other players to try to appease Kovalchuk, for instance.

The problem, ultimately, is that Waddell sucks as a GM. He doesn't value character, and that's why the team can't get over the top. Even the return on the Kovalchuk trade: he acquires a piece of human garbage like Patrice Cormer. And the other cancers he's drafted: Kovalchuk. Heatley. And those guys poison the other young players in the organization. Bryan Little's stunk this season after scoring 30 goals last year because he showed up this year out of shape.

They need to fire Waddell and start drafting players with some class. That's the one thing I can always say about the Lightning: we've almost always drafted guys who have had some sense of responsibility to the community and to their teammates and the ones who haven't (Jason Wiemer) haven't stuck around. When you have guys like Lecavalier and Stamkos and you have guys still involved around the organization like Dave Andreychuk and Phil Esposito, you can occassionally take a reform case like Steve Downie because strong organizations can make players straighten up. But the Thrashers? That's a cess pool that needs to be completely drained to kill what's been festering in it.

The Great Zo 02-08-2010 06:14 AM

Quote:

"I'm very excited because it's the first time in my career I have a chance to play for the first-class organization -- a team that won three Stanley Cups," Kovalchuk said following his first practice with his new teammates. "When I look around the locker room and see guys like Martin Brodeur, legends of this game, it's exciting."
From NHL.com

Coldrice 02-08-2010 11:31 AM

Atlanta Journal - Constitution (Schultz)

Maybe Bettman is gearing up for a post-Commissioner Marriage Counseling Service

Bettman Wants Thrasher's owners to get their act together

Quote:

“Ultimately, the ownership situation has to be straightened out,” Bettman told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “It’s difficult to operate a franchise when owners aren’t getting along. It’s even more difficult in a recession climate. A team has to be at its very best. Issues have to be resolved and everybody has to be together so they can interact with fans. But that’s difficult when the owners aren’t together.”
Quote:

The Thrashers are failing on several fronts. They’re 28th in the league in attendance, averaging 4,000 fans fewer per game in season 10 (13,204, according to inflated announced figures) than in year one (17,205). They have failed to cultivate new fans. They’ve burned bridges with old ones. General manager Don Waddell, the only constant from day one, acknowledges the team will fail to meet financial mandates from the league, which means it will be docked a portion of its take from the NHL’s revenue sharing program.
Seriously though, he has remedied our situation. Now he is going public about the Thrasher's ownership... whats next? Public outcry from him for Ice Edge to poop or get off the pot in PHX? Wonder what he's thinking to himself regarding Hicks in Dallas?

Methinks Mr. Bettman, although off the hook regarding us, is starting to maybe feel the heat from the other BoG's perhaps?

Sotnos 02-08-2010 12:01 PM

Interesting. That situation has been carrying on for a while, this is the first I see Bettman commenting on it.

Somewhat OT: Now that I read Vinik has been interested in buying a team for over a year, makes me think he must have been approached about Phoenix. It says something that our market is an easier sell than that one, though I believe Phoenix is bigger and faster growing.

Coldrice 02-08-2010 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sotnos (Post 61545)

Somewhat OT: Now that I read Vinik has been interested in buying a team for over a year, makes me think he must have been approached about Phoenix. It says something that our market is an easier sell than that one, though I believe Phoenix is bigger and faster growing.

Could be. And if so, I don't think any of us need an MBA from Harvard, Wharton, or Dartmouth to make that business decision :D

(TB) better attendance/history (Cup) and a $650,000 a year less vs. a $800,000,000,000,000 a year lease and less than desirable attendance (PHX) despite the growth potential


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