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RSchmitz 10-03-2017 05:52 PM

I think the biggest issue gun enthusiasts have is that the above laws are stepping stones. Aside from that, yeah. I try to listen to both sides as often as I can and I have yet to hear a sound argument against gun limitation. They often refer to stats like the murder rate going down or a counter example in another country, so "we don't need them". Bull shit, I'm not sure why there aren't logical common sense gun laws.

As someone who was raised around hunters though, I'll fight non-common sense gun laws though.

Hoek 10-03-2017 06:04 PM

I still think there's something really perverse in our national psyche that keeps creating the sort of people that do this thing (no different than the criticism leveled at extreme Islam) and that's what really needs addressing more than anything else, but there's no legit reason to have the absurd level of arsenal this guy did or a bump stock mod. The sooner we take away the gun control excuses the sooner we can grapple with this vengeance ideology where if one guy can't get what he wants he mindlessly takes it out on innocents who have absolutely nothing to do with his grievance.

WaiverWire 10-03-2017 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeykShade (Post 218656)
The Assault Weapons ban would have prevented his purchasing a ton of his weapons. That was allowed to sunset under W.

He hadn't converted the semi-auto rifles to full auto, he attached a completely legal(in NV and others) Bump-Fire stock to them. Shoulder weapon, push foregrip forward and let the recoil of the first round bounce your finger off of the trigger, the forward pressure on the foregrip resets the stock and your finger hits trigger.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


There's no reason for something like this to exist. It circumvents the NFA of 1934 by allowing full auto performance for <$100.


I do not have a problem with the assault rifle as long as they are not fully automatic. Many hunters use these as a weapon of choice. I am not a hunter and therefore would never own one.

Bump-fire stocks should be outlawed and fall under the category that I posted about a fully auto and a mandatory 10 years in prison for owning one.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie D (Post 218657)
Ban high capacity magazines.

While the following wouldn't have prevented the tragedy, they are common sense gun laws:

End the gun show loophole.
Make people register firearms and take a training class on their use.
Require gun thefts to be reported with 24 hours.


All would be a start. But states must be serious about any violations. Florida sadly appears to careless.

I have several retired detectives friends that I worked with and they went to work for Consumer Services and were assigned to concealed carry permits. One found that in the Miami area several instructors were signing off on training classes that are mandated by law. He found that these instructors had signed off on applicants that took classes in multiple locations on the same date. He was able to find several thousand, yes that is thousand, in the Miami area that admitted they never took the class but just was able to pay the instructor. He found this to be a major problem in the southeast part of the state. After a 9 month investigation the only thing the state did was pull the CCP of those involved and made them retake a class. Not one instructor was arrest and they are still teaching to this day.

What was really astounding was that Tallahassee made him investigated this even though he was assigned to the Tampa Office, as he was told that they did not think those in Miami could handle this type of investigation.

ZeykShade 10-03-2017 07:39 PM

.223/5.56x45 and 7.62x39 are horrible hunting rounds for anything larger than a coyote really. You can kill a deer with them, sure.

I understand the desire to have quick follow up shots to insure a kill on an animal, but there is a reason armies use these weapons with the rate of fire and capacity they have. It ain't for hunting deer or anything larger.

Both the 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 are pretty much carbine rounds if you compare their ballistics to those of real high powered rifle rounds, 7.62x51NATO(.308), .300 Win. Mag, 7.62x54R, 30-06, etc.

I'd be perfectly fine with forbidding the domestic(and foreign) sale of semi-auto rifles/shotguns in the US. Offer buybacks for the existing ones etc. Bolt-action/Break-Action/Pump-Action rifles and shotguns should be the only thing folks have access to without incredibly strict laws/education requirements to obtain and possess. If you live in Bearsfuckyourshitup, Alaska sure, you get to have the armaments necessary to protect yourself from Bears.

None of this really gets to the public safety/health issue of firearms. Even with how big a story mass shootings are and how incredibly horrific they are, they represent an incredibly small portion of the firearms deaths in America. They also aren't what causes police to respond quickly with deadly force. Handguns are the real culprit.

I own firearms. The first thing I learned about owning firearms and carrying them consistently is, "Every single encounter you have with another human being is one in which a firearm is involved". Cops deal with this as well. They bring one+ to every encounter.

At some point, we're going to have to address firearms as a public safety and health issue. Ideally, cops wouldn't need them because the people wouldn't have them. The only ones available to citizens would be easily spottable and lower capacity used only for hunting and the rare Defensive Gun Use(which studies actually show is incredibly rare).

WaiverWire 10-03-2017 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeykShade (Post 218664)
.223/5.56x45 and 7.62x39 are horrible hunting rounds for anything larger than a coyote really. You can kill a deer with them, sure.

I understand the desire to have quick follow up shots to insure a kill on an animal, but there is a reason armies use these weapons with the rate of fire and capacity they have. It ain't for hunting deer or anything larger.

Both the 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 are pretty much carbine rounds if you compare their ballistics to those of real high powered rifle rounds, 7.62x51NATO(.308), .300 Win. Mag, 7.62x54R, 30-06, etc.

I'd be perfectly fine with forbidding the domestic(and foreign) sale of semi-auto rifles/shotguns in the US. Offer buybacks for the existing ones etc. Bolt-action/Break-Action/Pump-Action rifles and shotguns should be the only thing folks have access to without incredibly strict laws/education requirements to obtain and possess. If you live in Bearsfuckyourshitup, Alaska sure, you get to have the armaments necessary to protect yourself from Bears.

None of this really gets to the public safety/health issue of firearms. Even with how big a story mass shootings are and how incredibly horrific they are, they represent an incredibly small portion of the firearms deaths in America. They also aren't what causes police to respond quickly with deadly force. Handguns are the real culprit.

I own firearms. The first thing I learned about owning firearms and carrying them consistently is, "Every single encounter you have with another human being is one in which a firearm is involved". Cops deal with this as well. They bring one+ to every encounter.

At some point, we're going to have to address firearms as a public safety and health issue. Ideally, cops wouldn't need them because the people wouldn't have them. The only ones available to citizens would be easily spottable and lower capacity used only for hunting and the rare Defensive Gun Use(which studies actually show is incredibly rare).

Totally agree with you on the "hot" rounds. And it is very true that "Every single encounter you have with another human being is one in which a firearm is involved". This is why over my years of service I received hundreds of hours on not only the proper handling of a firearm, but also I know how to keep my firearm and/or how to take away a firearm if in a close encounter. I also know that from 20 feet if you charge me with a knife there is no way I can draw my firearm in time to shot you. I have been through that training scenario time after time and I know the outcome.

But I totally disagree with you when you say that if hand guns were removed from the public than law enforcement would not need a firearm. How would we protect ourselves and the public if someone went on a rampage with an approved weapon? Would we wait until someone brought us one from the station? What would you do if we had another shooter in a school? Would you expect unarmed officers to try to take the person out? That is insane.

Better yet what if someone did not turn in their weapons and we had another Route 91? How would we be able to stop this person?

When President Obama was first elected to office he and his filibuster proof congress had two years to do something about this problem. They did not. Why? Just last night several congressional democrats were on TV stating that they believe in the 2 amendment. And if you care to check the NRA not only endorses the GOP but they also endorse several democrats. You see the President knows this and he knew then that he didn't stand a chance on passing any legislation.

Then we have the matter of the SCOTUS. They have ruled that we have the right to own a firearm. This is a ruling that may not be overturned for sometime and even longer if Trump can appoint another judge to that court.

I am by all means not knocking what you are saying or trying to do.....make this a better and safer place to live. But do you really think that everyone would turn in the firearms they have if they were ordered to do so? This thinking is why the NRA lobby's government to keep all firearm information out of computer systems. That is why when you purchase a firearm the transaction form you complete is a paper form for the government. That is why the government can not keep a data base on who has been approved or not. That is why in Florida, and many other states, those that have a CCP are protect from having their names release as they are placed on a confidential list.

I hate the NRA. I think they do a disservice to law enforcement. In Florida we have to delated any firearm data within 30 days from our data bases. Only exceptions is when the firearm is used in a crime or if someone turns in a found firearm. And in the later case if we find the owner we must by Florida law delete any details of that firearm within 48 hours.

I have been cussed out many times by the Florida lobbyist for the NRA. I wear her cuss words like a badge of honor.

Those 40+ firearms that Paddock had, do you think you just run them through a computer? Nope. You can run them through a computer and the only information you will receive is the name of the business that sold the firearm. You must send an agent to that business and provide a date of purchase. Then you must hope that the date isn't to old and the completed form is not in storage somewhere. Then you pray that Paddock's name is on that form. If not you have to find the person that made the purchase....etc. etc. etc. So yes, screw the NRA.

the_narrow_way 10-03-2017 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaiverWire (Post 218655)
Close the gun show loophole. Pass a law that when there is a transfer of a firearm, all transfers/transactions, from one person to another....that the transfer is reported.....even for a private transfer.

All transfers, including a private transfer, of ownership of a firearm to a new owner must complete a background check.

Increase the length of time a firearm can be held for a background check. There are times when a 72 hour period is not enough. I would have no problem seeing the hold time increase to 168 hours so that a proper background could be completed. Any transfer, including private, must receive an approval number before the transfer can take place.

Change the federal straw firearm purchase law. Currently the law says if convicted you could receive 10 years in prison and up to a $100,000. Take out the "could" out of the law and make it a mandatory 10 years in federal prison plus a $100,000 fine.

Allow the firearm dealers to summit these transfers via electronic means. This by paper garbage to keep the NRA happy is a joke in this day and age.

I also feel there is no reason for a private citizen to have a fully automatic weapon. Thus I feel that is should be a mandatory 10 year sentence if you are found guilty to have in your possession a firearm that has been converted to a fully automatic firearm. Also any business that manufactures, sells or transfer any kit or part to make a firearm fully automatic shall be subject to the same laws as an individual.

I agree with all of these WW.

Sotnos 10-04-2017 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie D (Post 218657)
Ban high capacity magazines.

While the following wouldn't have prevented the tragedy, they are common sense gun laws:

End the gun show loophole.
Make people register firearms and take a training class on their use.
Require gun thefts to be reported with 24 hours.

Seriously. There is NO REASON that someone buying 40+ guns (esp in a short period of time) shouldn't set off alarms bells somewhere.

Donnie D 10-04-2017 01:53 PM

Tillerson had openly disparaged the president, referring to him as a “moron,” after a July 20 meeting at the Pentagon with members of Trump’s national security team and Cabinet officials, according to three officials familiar with the incident.”

He got 1 thing right.

BurnTHalO 10-04-2017 03:45 PM

But hey, we don't know who to hate. Wait, maybe we can blame the NFL and the atheists.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

RSchmitz 10-04-2017 04:04 PM

I think it's ok to say "let's take a moment to make a decision not based on emotion". Giving Bush free reign after 9-11 was a decision based on emotion for example. Obviously I still think its just common sense to put into place tougher gun restrictions.


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