TSN's Evaluations & Rumors

[backstop]

I found this interesting... I copied and pasted the evaluations of Bolts moves & rumors (most of which are retreads):
http://tsn.ca/columnists/scott_cullen/?id=256746&lid=sublink01&lpos=headlines_nhl

- According to the Ottawa Sun, the Devils might take a shot at Lightning G Olaf Kolzig while Brodeur is out.

- The Ottawa Sun sticks with the Canucks trying to move D Mattias Ohlund, who is in the final year of his contract and has a no-trade clause, citing Ottawa, Tampa Bay and Philadelphia as interested parties.

- According to the Ottawa Sun, the only Lightning players not being offered in trade talks are Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St. Louis, Steven Stamkos, Paul Ranger and Andrej Meszaros.

Free Agents
Lightning sign LW Vaclav Prospal to a four-year, $14-million contract (3-8-11, plus-6 in 18 GP)
Returning to Tampa Bay after a strong stretch run with the Flyers last year, Prospal isn't scoring much, but has a team-best plus-minus. He'll need to do more.
TSN.ca Rating: 72.60

Lightning sign RW Mark Recchi to a one-year, $1.25-million (plus $250,000 in bonuses) contract (3-9-12, minus-5 in 18 GP)
The 40-year-old can still contribute offensively, though he's continuing the minus trend that has been standard since the lockout.
TSN.ca Rating: 67.83

Lightning sign RW Radim Vrbata to a three-year, $9-million contract (1-3-4, minus-1 in 12 GP)
Pretty much a disaster early on -- not scoring and even a healthy scratch -- but could be starting to come out of his early-season funk.
TSN.ca Rating: 64.25

Lightning sign Olaf Kolzig to a one-year $1.5-million (plus $1-million in bonuses) contract (1-3-1, 3.22 GAA, .909 SVPCT in 5 GP)
Playing okay as backup to Mike Smith, though the Lightnig have struggled in front of both.
TSN.ca Rating: 61.63

Lightning sign LW Ryan Malone to a seven-year, $31.5-million contract (3-0-3, minus-2 in 14 GP)
Power forward parlayed a career season into a monster deal and, like many of his teammates hasn't been able to get going offensively. May prove to have value over the long haul, but it's not looking good right now.
TSN.ca Rating: 61.42

Lightning sign LW Gary Roberts to a one-year, $1.25-million (plus $820,000 in bonuses) contract (2-1-3, minus-4 in 18 GP)
Not getting enough ice time to justify that contract for a 42-year-old winger.
TSN.ca Rating: 58.37

Lightning signed RW Adam Hall to a three-year, $1.8-million contract (1-1-2, minus-1 in 18 GP)
Provides an honest effort at a reasonable price, but is little more than a penalty killer.
TSN.ca Rating: 58.20

Trades
Lightning acquire D Janne Niskala (1-2-3, even in 6 GP, TSN.ca Rating: 73.12) from the Flyers for a 2009 6th-round pick
Possible power play quarterback got a short audition before he was cut loose and he's since returned to Sweden.

Sharks acquire D Dan Boyle (6-10-16, plus-5 in 19 GP, TSN.ca Rating: 86.89) and D Brad Lukowich (0-4-4, plus-5 in 19 GP, TSN.ca Rating: 66.56) from the Lightning for D Matt Carle (1-2-3, plus-2 in 17 GP, TSN.ca Rating: 65.76), D Ty Wishart (0-1-1, even in 15 GP with Norfolk of the AHL), a 2009 1st-round and 2010 4th-round pick
Boyle has bounced back all the way from a terrible 2007-2008 season and is a crucial component for the Sharks, while Lukowich is a steady presence as well. Carle played a lot in Tampa Bay, but didn't produce much before getting dealt to Philadelphia. Wishart was a first-round pick in 2006, but is off to a slow start as a pro, so the Lightning had better hope those picks pan out.

Lightning acquire D Andrej Meszaros (0-5-5, minus-1 in 18 GP, TSN.ca Rating: 68.47) from the Senators for D Filip Kuba (1-14-15, plus-5 in 19 GP, TSN.ca Rating: 79.86), D Alexandre R. Picard (2-5-7, even in 19 GP, TSN.ca Rating: 70.25) and a 2009 1st-round pick
Meszaros wanted to get paid, and he did, but he's struggled in the mess that is Tampa Bay, while Kuba and Picard have both played well, despite all the troubles in Ottawa. Getting a first-round pick on top of it all makes this a clearcut win for the Senators.

[Sotnos]

TSN put a negative comment in every recap, even the few that were almost positive, I'm truly shocked. :rolleyes:

Ottawa Sun = Bruce Garrioch, just thought I'd point that out.

[backstop]

They lost some credibility with me for ranking Hall as our worst FA acquisition... I think anyone who has been watching the games knows that he has been quite the opposite

[pete]

- According to the Ottawa Sun, the Devils might take a shot at Lightning G Olaf Kolzig while Brodeur is out.

In my mind, Mike Smith has proven his worth and the Kolzig insurance policy is no longer necessary. If they can get something of value for Kolzig, they should pull the trigger.

[CTLightning26]

tough decision. I wouldn't just give him away now. Devs better give us something good. Lou, a No. 2 please...he may have more trade value at the deadline

[nutznboltz]

Clemmenson won 3 straight or 3 out of 4, then Weekes stepped up last night and won. Doesn't sound like they'd be in the market for Kolzig right now unless one of them gets hurt too...

[TexasBolt]

See Bolthed's comment in the Around the NHL thread re: Luongo's potential long-term injury.

[pete]

Even getting a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick would be a coup for a 38 year old goaltender, and I'm not sure playing Ramo behind Norfolk's swiss cheese defense is really helping his development as much as people thought it would.

[bassassin]

See Bolthed's comment in the Around the NHL thread re: Luongo's potential long-term injury.

Maybe using him as one of the chips to get Ohlund from Vancouver, I just hope they dont give up one of the young defenders in the process as surely their value is low (apart from Lundin) due to Norfolks performance defensively thus far.

[Sotnos]

Vancouver has a (supposedly) young stud in the system who's been stuck behind Luongo. I think they'd rather call him up than take Kolzig, and Chicago with their $10 mil tied up in goalies has two more attractive alternatives than us if someone's really desperate.

[CTLightning26]

Cory Schneider.. he was certainly a money goaltender in college at BC
again, as i said on another thread. it depends whether Luongo is out 2-4 weeks or 2-3 months

[timothy]

Cory Schneider.. he was certainly a money goaltender in college at BC
again, as i said on another thread. it depends whether Luongo is out 2-4 weeks or 2-3 months

Schneider is currently the top-ranked goalie in all of the AHL. In 11gp, he is 10-1-0 with a 1.37 GAA and 0.945 SV%. That's pretty sick. I'm not sure VAN would be in a hurry to move a nice prospect for Kolzig with Schneider playing the way he is. Schneider has earned at least a shot.

[CTLightning26]

henhad kinda an off year last season. nice to see him playing well. schneider was the man at BC.. always came up big when needed

[nutznboltz]

From Larry Brooks' Slap Shots column in today's NY Post:

TAKE it for what it's worth, but you might want to know that Len Barrie, president of the Lightning, has been telling people in the industry that Mats Sundin will be playing for Tampa Bay when and if No. 13 resumes his career.

Yeah, right. As if.

[CTLightning26]

Len Barrie is way too cocky for my liking

[pete]

Len Barrie's a friggin' idiot. I'm fairly convinced that Oren Koules is probably an OK (pardon the pun) guy, but Mr. Chainsaw Brandishing Developer with the gold chain is the real problem here.

[WaiverWire]

Which I am sure why someone in the ownership group gave Lawton the title of GM in hopes that LB would keep his hands off the deals.

[timothy]

Len Barrie's a friggin' idiot. I'm fairly convinced that Oren Koules is probably an OK (pardon the pun) guy, but Mr. Chainsaw Brandishing Developer with the gold chain is the real problem here.

We don't call him Chainsaw Charlie for nothing.

[pete]

We don't call him Chainsaw Charlie for nothing.

He's the reason Dan Boyle isn't in a Lightning jersey anymore. And you can trace the the problems this team has had on the backline directly back to that trade, and it all happened because Barrie is too flippin' dumb to realize that Dan Boyle isn't the same player today that he was as a young player in the Florida organization roughly a decade ago.

That and firing Torts: that's the two decisions that blew up the foundation here. Now we're starting from scratch, and we're going to be suffering for 2-3 seasons to overcome it, most likely.

[astro]

He's the reason Dan Boyle isn't in a Lightning jersey anymore. And you can trace the the problems this team has had on the backline directly back to that trade, and it all happened because Barrie is too flippin' dumb to realize that Dan Boyle isn't the same player today that he was as a young player in the Florida organization roughly a decade ago.

That and firing Torts: that's the two decisions that blew up the foundation here. Now we're starting from scratch, and we're going to be suffering for 2-3 seasons to overcome it, most likely.

I agree with most things that you say except for one thing... and it's about Torts.

He came in and did his job beautifully when he had the right personnel. When the Lightning lost Khabby, he should have realized that his system depended on an elite goaltender. If though he lacked that important piece, he continued with his system. The lack of a redline hurt him too. He was unable to adapt his system for today's Lightning. That's where he went wrong. I like him, but I don't think that he was no longer right for this club.

Was Barry Melrose the answer, definitely not. I emailed Feaster before they hired him and stated that Barry was not the answer here. Unfortunately, he had no say in anything. Not that my email would have made a difference :D

[Bolthed]

I don't think we're starting from scratch. You're basing that on what you see on the ice right now, which is still something of a rudderless ship. Tocchet may not be ready for all of the responsibilities and nuances of matching minds with really good, really experienced NHL head coaches. The suffering might continue through much of this season, but I don't think the personnel moves are as much to blame as the coaching moves.

And even though you can compare Boyle to the haul of assets that was obtained for him and point to the offensive numbers and stability that he would have provided our blueline, I don't think it's a clear loser of a trade because of Boyle's salary and the cap flexibility we got from moving him. Does he still have enough good years left to make it a tough trade to stomach and a worthy debate for years? Sure.

But you can't argue that we were going nowhere as a franchise with our Big 3 or 4 approach. The Richards trade worked out in most peoples' eyes because all of the players we got in return have looked good, while Brad has not been the star his salary demands he be. On the flip side, Boyle has been a star, and the return on that trade, while diverse, has not performed quite so well. But IMHO we desperately needed depth at forward (look at the final roster last season — it's atrocious) and so the move was arguably necessary.

[nutznboltz]

Did Torts and Feaster think that Grahame was the answer and they could continue to play the same system and the same way? They must have, as Grahame nearly beat out Khabbi in Dec-Jan of the Cup year, and they must have believed when he got promoted from #2 to #1, nothing would change. How wrong they were :doh:

[pete]

I don't think we're starting from scratch.

Then you're not paying attention. Sure, we've got some good components left over like Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Ranger to work with, but components mean nothing if you have no plan. We have no organization and no structure from the top down.

And you all can piss on Torts all you want, the fact remains he had structure. And you can piss on Feaster all you want, but the organization had a clear chain of command when he was in charge. We have none of those things right now. If you were going to replace those two, you'd better replace them with people who know how to bring organization and structure to the table. Instead we got a six headed front office with a rookie pseudo-GM, and a coaching staff led by a man who had been out of hockey for 13 years, an associate coach who had spent as much time in trouble with the authorities as behind a bench, a guy in Cap Raeder who's been a scout for the past half decade plus, and a rookie assistant in Walz.

They bought some $48M worth of materials and hired an unlicensed contractor and an unregistered architect.

I don't think it's a clear loser of a trade because of Boyle's salary and the cap flexibility we got from moving him.

We spent that money on Ryan Malone and Gary Roberts. We lost. As sure as the sun rises, we lost. Even if Carle had been everything they touted he'd be and Wishart was tearing up the AHL, we'd still be losing in the short term. They traded one of the five best offensive defensemen in the game. That's always, as a general rule, a dumb move. The fact that Barrie did it largely based on his rememberances of Boyle in PantherNation made it even dumber.

But you can't argue that we were going nowhere as a franchise with our Big 3 or 4 approach.

No, we're going nowhere with our Big 2 and Stamkos approach, because no one has a frickin' clue in the front office or behind the bench.

The annoying thing is, they got a reprieve from the ping pong balls when they got Stamkos which meant they had an instant replacement for Richards. If they had just spent money on a couple of forwards and a defenseman and kept the rest in tact, we'd be golden right now. They didn't have to operate with a machette to get thing does. Ego drove their decision to do so, and we're paying the price.

But IMHO we desperately needed depth at forward

How many goals have we scored this season?

[Bolthed]

Working backwards up ...

First of all, you just wrote an entire retort that trashes the status quo. Of course it's easy to point out how bad the team has performed thus far. But are you really saying we didn't desperately need depth at forward?

Secondly, you make a good point about the retooling with a scalpel approach. I think it's a valid opinion, I just am not sure I agree with it. On a gut level, I don't and I will try to explain why below.

Third, do you have a quote or a source to support the charge that Barrie was behind the Boyle trade specifically based on his experience with Boyle in south Florida? Or is that speculation? I am not trying to be snarky. I really want to know if I missed that or if it's just an assumption on your part. Also, the jury is far from finished with deliberations on Malone.

And finally, you might like to hyperbolize my words as "pissing on" previous decision-makers, but believe me I am not happy about the mistakes that have been made. (Quick example: I am visiting for T-Giving tomorrow and have no interest - ZERO! - in catching a home game. :tsk: ) This new ownership has made season-killing blunders behind the bench. I say that because I truly believe that the right coaching staff would make my roster arguments FOR me. But instead, the rudderless ship opens up the roster shuffling to a bunch of what-if conjecture.

So if you want to talk about the roster, independent of the disasters that have occurred around it, that would be the debate I was looking for. I saw where we were going with too many fourth-liners on the third line and third-liners on the second line and defensemen like Kuba and Lukowich who had no future while the present stunk badly as well. Not only does it not sound like a good idea to retool such a fatally flawed roster from 2007-08, but it wasn't a realistic possibility. We have new owners. Period. And they tend to make all kinds of personnel changes. After the last three seasons, I welcomed that. And when you look at the money tied up in Boyle, Lukowich, and Kuba vs. the players we got in return ... yeah, I think I would rather have this roster with Malone's potential (and expected) impact as long as you consider that we've got the makings of a more defensively responsible blueline (again, I don't think it's fair to use the current rudderless ship against my point ... consider what our current blueline could do in a well-structured system instead).

Point blank, you just don't get a Malone or a Rolston without the cap flexibility that came with the Boyle trade. So if you want to envision this roster with FAs like Vrbata and Recchi, well I don't. Sure, it doesn't look any better now with Malone. But I think he will eventually be a good signing, a critical character/skill top-6 forward. And we couldn't have reworked our defense in any way without dealing Boyle. There isn't a Kuba/Picard/1st for Meszaros trade without San Jose's 1st instead of ours (which would be too valuable to deal).

The only personnel issues I have were the Roberts signing and the inability to bring in a better veteran defensive dman than Marek Malik. But I don't think either of those moves are season-killers or long-term problems. I think our future is much brighter now than what I could image it would be with a retooling. Even with a smart scalpel approach, we still would have to factor in the disastrous coaching-staff fumbles. In that scenario, we'd be in even better shape for Tavares or Hedman ...

... what a minute, maybe you DO have a good idea there. :hmmmm:

[pete]

But are you really saying we didn't desperately need depth at forward?

What depth? What depth does this team have? This team went from being a 1-1/2 line team to a 1/2 a line team. Is that progress? This team is bottomfeeding in terms of the number of goals scored, despite the fact they've spread the dollars around to more bodies.

Third, do you have a quote or a source to support the charge that Barrie was behind the Boyle trade specifically based on his experience with Boyle in south Florida?

Look at what Boyle said on the way out. The man had no reason to lie and specifically call out Barrie.

So if you want to talk about the roster, independent of the disasters that have occurred around it, that would be the debate I was looking for. I saw where we were going with too many fourth-liners on the third line and third-liners on the second line and defensemen like Kuba and Lukowich who had no future while the present stunk badly as well.

They were so terrible that they were giving up around 12-15 less shots a game as a team, and they actually could move the puck up out of their own end. Could you imagine how Smith would be doing if he was facing 12-15 less shots a night? And maybe your supposed forward depth would be able to turn the red light on more than once in a blue moon if there was some veteran presence that was able to make a play out of the back end under pressure.

And when you look at the money tied up in Boyle, Lukowich, and Kuba vs. the players we got in return ... yeah, I think I would rather have this roster with Malone's potential (and expected) impact

Well then we disagree about Malone's potential. I, personally, wouldn't have touched him at the inflated price and contract duration he was commanding on the free agent market. You want to talk about lack of flexibility? Give $4.5M per on a long term deal to a glorified 20 goal 40-45 point guy. You wouldn't be able to give that guy away now if you threw a week in Cabo with Jessica Alba in the deal.

So if you want to envision this roster with FAs like Vrbata and Recchi, well I don't.

You would've had more veteran stability on the blueline, adequate scoring line talent for Stamkos, and oh yeah, you'd still have one of the five best offensive defensemen in the game (and, obviously, a much better power play). I guarantee we'd have 4-5 more wins right now if they had done it that way.

There isn't a Kuba/Picard/1st for Meszaros trade without San Jose's 1st instead of ours (which would be too valuable to deal).

And I could live with that, because Picard's a good young defenseman, Kuba was savagely underrated here (15 points in 20 games with Ottawa), and even if you hated Filip's guts his contract was up next summer so you'd have freed up money to get someone else next offseason. It's not like Kuba was locked in here on a five year deal. And, you know, not to be a jerk but Meszaros has less points than either Kuba or Picard. The problem lies in the fact that Meszaros wasn't a clear cut power play QB when the made the deal for him, and they were already trying to give Carle that role as the lefty shot on the top PP unit. Until the day Andrej proves that he can be a #1 PP guy, we didn't win that deal, because Ottawa got the better end short term and with Picard and a late 1st, they can make an argument they're just as well off long term too if Meszaros doesn't take his game to the next level.

Even with a smart scalpel approach, we still would have to factor in the disastrous coaching-staff fumbles.

Which is another thing that should've never been allowed to happen. Firing Torts for Barry Melrose was like trading a new Lexus for a 95 Ford Taurus.

[CTLightning26]

Ill take this roster over the last few yrs any day of the week. Boyler would be nice to have at his best, but his salary was too big. Hope he wins a cup in san jose this year
This will take time. but if Barrie can calm down, we can be a good team next season and, if everything falls right, a contender for a 7th or 8th seed this season if we dont have too many efforts like Sunday's.
In my mind, the glass is half full

[jaydeedub]

I agree also. I believe this roster is much better over last. It's damn better on paper that's forsure. They have been victim of poor coaching, a crap camp with a trip to Europe and other un-needed drama. Did anyone really think, that after 20 games into the season that at least one of the following; VL4, MSL, or VP$ would not be with in the top 50 of scoring in the NHL for points? Freaking Dan Boyle has more points then them. When I looked over the stats today it just blew my mind.
Stamkos is a good player, and should become a great one with time. Malone has potential to be a 30 goal scorer, and he DOES bring more to the game because of his character, and Vrbata shows flashes of potential. For me he was a question mark, but if he could score 27 goals for the Coyotes in 76 games, he sure the hell should be able to do the same with the Bolts with talent on this team. I just do not believe it's lack of talent in the players, maybe just that in the coaches. Save for Raeder because Smitty has been shit hot for the most part this season.
The depth is better, they just need to be coached to play to their strength.

And I do not blame you for not wanting to go to a game. I told my pal the only way I'm driving my happy ass all the way down from Jax this season is if she's giving me tix for great seats.

[joeminus]

Did Torts and Feaster think that Grahame was the answer and they could continue to play the same system and the same way?

Feaster did. Torts did not.

But he stuck with his system, anyway.

[pete]

Feaster did. Torts did not.

But he stuck with his system, anyway.

Which, in my mind, is a validation of his system. He got into the playoffs with bums like John Grahame and Sean Burke and Johan Holmqvist and Marc Denis between the pipes. That's no small feat.

[backstop]

Which, in my mind, is a validation of his system. He got into the playoffs with bums like John Grahame and Sean Burke and Johan Holmqvist and Marc Denis between the pipes. That's no small feat.

Or maybe his system (which gave up 20 quality scoring chances a game, more than we are giving up now and which was never successful in the new NHL) made goalies look even worse than they actually were.

[pete]

Or maybe his system (which gave up 20 quality scoring chances a game, more than we are giving up now and which was never successful in the new NHL) made goalies look even worse than they actually were.

Then surely at least ONE of those four goaltenders would still be in the NHL, right?

[Donnie D]

Freaking Dan Boyle has more points then them.


Perhaps that's the problem. No Dan Boyle getting the puck to the others in a position where they can score.

[nutznboltz]

Then surely at least ONE of those four goaltenders would still be in the NHL, right?

Wasn't Holmquist excellent in shootouts? Maybe he can come over and teach Mike Smith a thing or two. Smith looks totally lost and with zero confidence in the shootout situation right now...

[Bolthed]

Pete, you are still using flawed logic in your argument that this year's team has less depth than last year's. Would you not agree that the coaching has been less than stellar this season (Melrose - horrible, Tocchet - rookie). And are you not claiming that Torts was a good coach? Then you CANNOT use the lack of goals this season as proof that this roster isn't as deep.

But if you really must insist on making a pretty ridiculous argument (just my opinion), then maybe you should just look at it differently. Try eyeballing the depth charts. It's freakin' obvious to me ...

Jokinen-Lecavalier-St. Louis
Darche-Halpern-Ouellet
Ward-Gratton-Lessard
Roy-MacDonald-Tarnasky
Scratch: Karlsson, Janik

Boyle-Ranger
Kuba-O'Brien
Picard-Lukowich
Smaby

Smith
Ramo

-----------------VS.-------------------

Prospal-Lecavalier-St. Louis
Malone-Stamkos-Vrbata
Recchi-Jokinen-Artyukhin
Hall-Gratton-Pettinger
Scratch: Roberts, Craig
IR: Halpern

Meszaros-Malik
Ranger-Eminger
Krajicek-Lundin

Smith
Kolzig

---------------------------------------

Remember, I said we would compare the Lightning roster now to the one at the end of last season, because that is the one that you wanted tweaked instead of exploded. I can't imagine NOT exploding that roster.

And please spare me the defense of Filip Kuba, who sounds GREAT right now with his stats on a good offensive team. But I'm sure he's still a soft 6-foot-3. The fact is that we all saw what he was. And most of us had no problem with moving into the future without him. I would rather take our lumps with a younger team that has potential than try to make the playoffs (and still go NOWHERE in the long run) with a team full of veterans who we know have no future with us. But let me clarify - I like Kuba as a complementary veteran dman who can play solid positional defense and score you 30 or so points a season. That's what he was brought in to Tampa to do and he did well IMO. But for this team, he was expensive and irrelevant.

Let's not forget that we are trying to play a new style. Maybe that's the big part of this picture that you don't agree with. But I love the idea of being tougher and more physical. I want our team to be harder to play against. So goodbye to the Filip Kuba's of the world that we KNOW won't play that way.

Here's a question for you, Pete. Do you really feel that this roster isn't capable of finding its way and eventually being at least a league-average offense (even with this horrid start)? Do you really think this roster doesn't have the potential to grow into a better team than the ones that went nowhere in recent years? Because you have based a lot of your opinions on Lightning players getting off to a bad scoring start AND ex-Lightning players getting off to good scoring starts. What will become of your opinions if or when the Lightning develop some cohesion and an identity and consistently score closer to their potential?

[Bolthed]

One more post ...

I want to be fair in making my case and open-minded in considering yours. So here is what I imagine your scalpel job would have looked like:

Prospal-Lecavalier-St. Louis
Jokinen-Stamkos-Vrbata
Recchi-Gratton-Artyukhin
Hall-Craig-Pettinger
IR: Halpern

Boyle-Ranger
Kuba-O'Brien
Lukowich-Picard
Lundin

Smith
Ramo

-------------------------------------------

I don't know for sure that this tweaked roster would fit under the cap, but I am willing to say that it's not that much different/worse than what we've got.

So let's say the Lightning took the money they saved on Boyle and signed a couple of FA forwards and an FA goalie. The jury's out on Malone (we'll agree to disagree on his potential) and Roberts has been a bust. But personally I think they are doing the right thing by putting young Ramo in the AHL, where he can carry a team. So I like the Kolzig move for that reason and for stability on the big club (and he could very well be a tradeable commodity at the deadline). I have a feeling you disagree about your boy Karri. :coolwink:

Again, my overall point is that I like this team's future MUCH more than the possible future of tweaking last year's roster. We just need an identity, which should come from good coaching and leadership. I'm eagerly awaiting that development this season.

Peace, out, my friend.

[Jester47]

Wasn't Holmquist excellent in shootouts? ...

Great idea, where is Holmer now??? We sign him, dress 3 goalies and bring him in for the S/O... PLAN .... :duh:

[Puckhead]

Re: Malone-- I'm with my "hed" friend on this one. In my mind, the acquisition of Malone has been paying increasingly valuable dividends. I don't think any of us envisioned him with 4 and 26, but look at what he has brought to the table...He's one of the few guys that brings the whole package, every shift, every night.

[Donnie D]

Bolthed - interesting analysis. Unfortunately, Roberts isn't the guy scratched, he's playing (until he got hurt.) And I would put Hall in the middle of the 4th line and Craig on the wing.

Basically, the difference is the addition of Malone and the reconstructed defense. I think you could also argue that the 2 defensive trades that brought Meszaros (you need to use our #1 or substitute a couple of #2s) and Krajicek could have been made with Boyle's salary.

So try the following:

Prospal-Lecavalier-St. Louis
Recchi-Stamkos-Vrbata
Hall-Jokinen-Artyukhin
Craig-Gratton-Pettinger
IR: Halpern

Meszaros-Malik
Boyle-Ranger
Krajicek-Lundin

Smith
Kolzig

This salary cap hit is right about where we are today - Malone & Roberts for Boyle. Trade Luk independently for a pick.

[nutznboltz]

Great idea, where is Holmer now??? We sign him, dress 3 goalies and bring him in for the S/O... PLAN .... :duh:

He's playing for the Frolunda Indians :coolwink:

http://www.frolundaindians.com/sv/frolunda/lagen/a-laget/

[Bolthed]

Donnie, there's no telling if Ottawa would have done that trade with second rounders instead of San Jose's first. But there's also no way WE make that trade with our first. It is potentially worth WAY too much. I'll give you Krajicek for O'Brien, but I'm not sure I can envision Boyle AND Meszaros AND all of it under the cap. But I'll agree with your original notion that the trade might essentially be viewed as Boyle for Malone, Roberts, Kolzig and a restructured defense.

I also think we're unlikely to finish the season with some of these veterans (Recchi, Roberts, maybe even Vrbata) so the future is going to be based on a foundation that most definitely relies on Malone and Meszaros among the other core guys. Again, those guys and the cap flexibility are why I like THIS future better.

[Donnie D]

I think the concept is that Malone and Roberts are about equal in salary to Boyle. So there isn't a lot of difference. The pick we traded to Ottawa may be the #30 pick and our second could very well be #31, so the addition of the second #2 might have worked.

Malone has performed well lately. But this team misses Boyle badly and I still think there is more to the Boyle trade than we know.

[CTLightning26]

i think we got Phily's No. 2 for Prospal after they made eastern finals, didn;t we or was it a third?

[pete]

We got Philly's 2nd, yes.