Rays attendance

[Sotnos]

Read this today and it really makes me wonder:

Pennant fever? Not around here (http://www.tampabay.com/news/article787365.ece)

So, if you're sitting in the owner's box, how do you not look at a stadium more than two-thirds empty, while the team is in first place, and wonder if this is as good as it gets?

I know many of you are faithful Rays followers, so what do you make of the poor attendance? Is it going to take a year or two of winning to get people to go? Is the location that bad? Do they need to blackout home games?

Does Romano (and others) just need more patience?

[Maverick9911]

I doesn't surprise me that Romano wrote that. He and Walrus Shelton are fountains of negativity. That being said, its a valid problem.

Duemig went off on it yesterday cause some jackass called into Romey, said it was an hour and a half drive over the bridge and that 90% of the area's sports fans are in Hillsborough. I think the drive is a problem for some, especially during rush hour, but its manageable. I went to a couple of games when the Yankees were in town and getting on the bridge at 5:30 got me stuck in considerable traffic, however once it cleared I was able to get to the Trop by 7pm.

In May people said to wait for school to end, that the crowds would pick up. They have but not enough. I think there are a variety of legitimate problems but with this town's poor track record when it comes to support, you really wonder. Should the Rays win the division and go on to more this will all be moot because then you'll be inundated with "day one fans".

I've already heard the calls from some already "Who needs the Bucs or Lightning - we have the Rays!" Not sure if relocation would do more harm than good - Pinellas already has a complex when it comes to teams that play in Hillsborough.

[Donnie D]

With a few exceptions, it is too expensive for individual baseball fans to purchase season tickets. And you aren't going to get a huge walk up crowd on a weeknight during the school week for a stadium that, if you are in Brandon or Plant City is an hour drive away.

For Baseball, you need a level of corporate backers who will buy season tickets and distribute them to clients and employees. They give you that base attendence that carries you through the weekdays. But that is only going to happen if the recipient views the tickets as a reward. Until this year, that hasn't been the case with the Rays. If you are a company, you want to give away Bucs tickets, up until this year, Lightning tickets....but Rays tickets wouldn't be a big deal.

Season ticket renewals were way down with the Lightning this year according to my rep. The drop wasn't coming from the individual fans who bought the season tickets, they were from the companies who were both cutting back on expenses in these down times and who weren't viewing the Lightning tickets as the reward that they were when they were winning.

That's my thoughts .... they may be BS like the rest of my opinions....but I'm sticking with it.

[Maverick9911]

Actually not BS at all...never considered that angle but its very valid.

I think they just need more LL Cool J and Hammer. Those guys pack the house :coolwink:

[RSchmitz]

Number one reason, there are close to a half dozen teams with fan bases larger than the Rays here, way too many transplants. It would seem that the Lightning and Bucs control the market on the entertainment dollar of the true locals. Number two, they should never have built the stadium in St. Pete, and they shouldn't consider building the new stadium there. Too few people, too far out of the way. Number three, the stadium itself sucks; from the parking, to the seating. It isn't the worst stadium, but its among the bottom tier. Domes in general...we need a safeco field.

[Matt]

It's a joke no matter the excuses. 12,000 for the best team in the AL? That's awful. It makes me mad because the numbers show the Rays play better in front of the big crowds. People bellyached on the radio about not going until they win, well those whiners need to put their money where their mouth is. Kazmir was on Rome saying the players aren't happy about it because they need the support especially in a pennant race. I know it's not a big market and the location isn't the greatest, but it's not much to ask to get at least 20,000 a night. The area is deservedly getting ripped for not supporting the team. I just hate seeing this team doing so well and people in the area not going out to the ball park to give them the support they need. I imagine things will get a boost next year, but they need it now.

I do think a stadium in Tampa would help things tremendously. The St. Pete traffic control is awful and there are just more people who work/live in Tampa.

[Hoek]

Fennelly also had a critical column in the Trib.

I think everyone's already brought up the best points.

Speaking as more of an outsider/casual/curious fan of the sport (which means I might never get off my butt to go to the Trop even this year I'll admit, and feel free to castigate me), baseball just has waaaay too many games. Why make it out to a relatively inconvenient midweek game when I know there will be plenty on the weekend? It's asking a lot of this diverse populace that has lots of other entertainment options and other pressures on their wallet to make it out there every night. They're doing a great job of filling the place on the most favorable dates though, from what I understand. It's taken too much for granted that people will just eat up baseball because it's "America's pastime" or because this is spring training central. Maybe we just are inherently less of a baseball town than a football or even a hockey town!

I still believe a lot of it is only a matter of time and typical fairweather/bandwagoning though, and I totally understand the frustration. 20,000 would be a reasonable target indeed and it's a bit of a headscratcher they're not reaching it.

[jaydeedub]

I do think a stadium in Tampa would help things tremendously. The St. Pete traffic control is awful and there are just more people who work/live in Tampa.

Completely agree. My Dad is a HUGE ball fan, but lives up in Pasco county off of 52 and the Sun Coast, but dreads the drive down to the Trop. I can't blame him. If their stadium was in Tampa it'd take him no time to get to it from the Sun Coast. It'd be even worse if they put it on the water next to the Pier. Just imagine the traffic then getting deeper into StP? Yuck.

[Maverick9911]

Christ, Sportscenter just made it a running joke during the Rays highlights. Buccigross compared last night's game to the final Lightning game this year vs. Atlanta when they drew 17k. They were laughing.

"St. Pete likes to say that's their team, well show up St. Pete!"

[RSchmitz]

It's a joke no matter the excuses. 12,000 for the best team in the AL? That's awful. It makes me mad because the numbers show the Rays play better in front of the big crowds. People bellyached on the radio about not going until they win, well those whiners need to put their money where their mouth is. Kazmir was on Rome saying the players aren't happy about it because they need the support especially in a pennant race. I know it's not a big market and the location isn't the greatest, but it's not much to ask to get at least 20,000 a night. The area is deservedly getting ripped for not supporting the team. I just hate seeing this team doing so well and people in the area not going out to the ball park to give them the support they need. I imagine things will get a boost next year, but they need it now.

I do think a stadium in Tampa would help things tremendously. The St. Pete traffic control is awful and there are just more people who work/live in Tampa.

I've been to 8 games so far this season. The bullshit to get to the game isn't worth it, I have a much better time going to my local sports bar and cheering with 20 other fans.

[the_narrow_way]

Christ, Sportscenter just made it a running joke during the Rays highlights. Buccigross compared last night's game to the final Lightning game this year vs. Atlanta when they drew 17k.
Kudos to the Lighting, for being able to put more butts in the seats for the final game of a bottom-dwelling season, and vs. Atlanta, than the Rays in an AL-leading season.

[Wrong Net Paulie]

I've been to 8 games so far this season. The bullshit to get to the game isn't worth it, I have a much better time going to my local sports bar and cheering with 20 other fans.

Bingo.

Between the effort needed to get to the game (and I was in North Tampa, to go to a 7pm game and fight traffic around Tampa i'd have to leave at 5:30, hell in itself) its just... a royal pain in the ass. Sitting in traffic uses gas. Gas costs money. I haven't worked since April, and the IT industry in this area is garbage. Its a number of factors to have a poor turnout - population density isn't exactly through the roof in St. Pete so you're depending on pull from Tampa (and Zephyrhills, Dade City, PR/NPR, etc) and from Sarasota, Bradenton, etc.... Skyway... not so bad. Coming from Tampa... bit of a pain in the ass.

So thats my first point. Population density. Lower population density means the more people, the more travel by fans, collectively.

Economy. No need for details, people know what I mean. Lower pay than most big cities + ticket prices + drive TIME AND gas... going to a game isn't cheap. I'm in Kenneth City now and as much as I want to go, just not in the budget.

Next - and this will probably piss some people off, but... this is the first season they're actually winning. This is the first season they're doing something worthwhile. Frankly, most people still think they're doing terrible. Most friends of mine have no idea how well or how bad the Rays are doing... when I tell them they're in first, they're shocked.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA THE RAYS ARE WINNING.

Sad but true. Seems most of the population just kind of got numb to the Rays losing. Besides that, even one season of success warrants packing the house? You would hope so, but... *shrug*. I have to remind friends constantly that the Rays are up 4.5 games on the Red Sox.

Tickets as gifts.

This is a two-pronged attack here... first, tickets given away as gifts or tokens of appreciation for hard work, etc. People say, "well, work gives away the bucs tickets and people are all over them", well yes, but the season is a bit more exclusive, only 8 home games, and the Bucs have been winning. Same with the lightning, within reason. Tickets were a bit more exclusive, even if they still have 40+ home games. Baseball feels like it goes on year round, and when they were losing it felt like it was a "here, you take this" situation with tickets instead of a "thanks for your hard work, enjoy a ball game". Face it, over the years, they've lost that lustre of being free tickets. For a while, it was like someone handing you a trash bag and saying "YOU WIN, ENJOY". Even if you won, you still lost. Now that value is back up a bit but they need more exposure for people to realize it can be a great time. I'm not saying its right, but thats how it is. The second part of this is something that was mentioned earlier in the threat - corporate ticket sales are down, for obvious reasons. I won't go into too many details about that but that is a big chunk of sales.

I'll post more later, although after this i'm sure you'll all develop a disdain for reading and would rather toss darts at a photo of my face.

[Sotnos]

Maybe we just are inherently less of a baseball town than a football or even a hockey town!
I am really beginning to wonder. I also agree that there are tons TONS of fans of other teams down here, and maybe their baseball affinities are stronger than their hockey ones. :noidea:

I think if they keep up the winning, things will get bette, but when? From my understanding they DO make money, so hopefully the owner can just hang on a little longer. I do feel bad for the guys out there playing their butts off though, it's gotta suck.

Completely agree. My Dad is a HUGE ball fan, but lives up in Pasco county off of 52 and the Sun Coast, but dreads the drive down to the Trop. I can't blame him. If their stadium was in Tampa it'd take him no time to get to it from the Sun Coast. It'd be even worse if they put it on the water next to the Pier. Just imagine the traffic then getting deeper into StP? Yuck.
I do agree with this. St Pete is decent for points south, but from points north forget it.

[Matt]

Next - and this will probably piss some people off, but... this is the first season they're actually winning. This is the first season they're doing something worthwhile. Frankly, most people still think they're doing terrible. Most friends of mine have no idea how well or how bad the Rays are doing... when I tell them they're in first, they're shocked.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA THE RAYS ARE WINNING.

Sad but true. Seems most of the population just kind of got numb to the Rays losing. Besides that, even one season of success warrants packing the house? You would hope so, but... *shrug*. I have to remind friends constantly that the Rays are up 4.5 games on the Red Sox.


No hatred for you, don't worry. :thumb:

I just have to wonder if your friends are sports fans at all. Certainly I have friends who don't follow sports at all and I don't expect them to know Tampa even has a baseball team. My friends who hate baseball but still follow sports casually know the Rays are doing well this season. I mean the Rays are constantly on the front of the sports page, lead off sports in the local news, and are even the top story on newspapers/newscasts. ESPN talks about them on a regular basis now that they're winning. If your friends do follow sports, are they blind and deaf? No offense to your friends, but that seems far fetched that if they follow sports even a little that they would have no idea the Rays are doing well this year. Maybe not that they know how many games the Rays are up on the Sox, but that they have a decent team this season. I don't think a majority of people having no clue the Rays are winning isn't true and I don't think it's a reason they don't draw.

I think the bigger problems are the stadium and getting to it, the history of the team, the lack of corporate sponsors, and a small season ticket holder base. The first one isn't going to change for some time. The second is starting to change. The third and fourth will improve next season because the team is starting to win. I think(hope) we'll start seeing a bigger jump in attendance next year.

[KyleFreadrich43]

Most people in this area are already into the Lightning and Buccaneers financially, of the 3 sports, baseball is most boring. Unless it's a competitive game between the better teams, even a 13-3 home win is boring with nothing on the line.

The average fan doesn't make enough in a year to support all 3 teams, and the other 2 offer much more fan friendly options.

Football and hockey are physical and mental, leading to a better viewing experience, whereas baseball is strategy, and that's been a lost art for about 2 decades.

Baseball was an enjoyable spring thing to do, hang out with the guys, skip work, fathers take their sons, families enjoy an afternoon out, and it's very, very inexpensive. Sports speculators took the interest in spring training as a definite that baseball would work here full time, they were wrong.

It's not anything having to do with high prices, as they have the lower prices of the 3 sports, but again, when you factor in excitement and watch ability, as well as best reward for your already spent dollar, baseball loses out almost all the time.

The games for the BoSox, Yankees and Twins will be sell-outs, but I doubt any of the others will be, outside of Saturday black-outs or exciting shows like LL Cool J and the Village People....

[Donnie D]

I think you are right, baseball is another culture up north.

Up north, baseball means summer - those 3 or 4 months that you don't have to be cooped up in your home. People go to the games like you go to a park. They don't care if the game is boring, you are sitting outside having a beer and a hot dog with your friends and family. It doesn't matter if they win or lose, becuase you get to be outside.

You play softball at family reunions with 30 people on each team and the 4 year olds run the wrong way when they hit the ball. It's just different.

[Sotnos]

I think you are right, baseball is another culture up north.

Up north, baseball means summer - those 3 or 4 months that you don't have to be cooped up in your home. People go to the games like you go to a park.Wellllll maybe, but you're also talking about years (and years and years) of having a local MLB team as part of the culture in northern cities. So are we sure it's the weather & not the culture?

I also do think that KF43 might have a point with baseball having the least amount of action of the local sports. I've wondered before if young kids now are into baseball or if it's too slow for their short attention spans.

[TexasBolt]

The other thing that sucks: Where do most people seem to move to Tampa from? New York, Boston, Chicago, and Minnesota.

Who are four of the other five teams in playoff contention in the AL? New York, Boston, Chicago, and Minnesota.

Then you have all the Philly transplants still rooting for the Phillies because they're in the mix in the National League, plus the Mets and Cubs fans from the groups I already listed. I can't see people getting on the bandwagon when their hometown teams are still very much in the race. I mean, if the Rays and Rangers were battling for a playoff spot, I don't think I'd be jumping on the Texas bandwagon just because I live here. It would be counterproductive.

[missK]

I have to say I was a BIG baseball fan before I moved to FL in '92. Since I moved and became a Lightning season ticket holder in '93, hockey has ruined me to sit through a baseball or football game, live or on TV. I get too bored waiting for something to happen and all the stupid and illegal antics of the players have turned me off. Plus since I spend 95% of my entertainment budget on hockey, I can't afford to pay for baseball tickets to be bored out of mind. It's less expensive for me to go to a movie and be really entertained for a couple hours or stay home and watch some videos. It's just the reality of my life. Hockey ruined me! :coolwink:

[Donnie D]

I'm going to the Rays game today. I think it's my fifth of the season. I've only gone twice before, when our church went for a concert and when my wife won tickets in a box.

Tickets were more difficult to get this week. We have been sitting in the press level buying tickets the Friday before the game. Always been in 2 - 3 sections from home plate. This time, we are past the dugout.