The choice for Veep/Democratic Natl. Convention

[jaydeedub]

On "Mr. Independent" tonight they were discussing Obama's possible choices for VP that he'll announce who it is tomorrow....any good guesses on who it will be? Think it'll be a surprise to us at all?

[Maverick9911]

I have my phone nearby, waiting for the imminent text - though I was never confident they would release the name before his rally tomorrow.

My guess tonight is that its Joe Biden. I'm hearing late mention of Chet Edwards but I highly doubt it.

[pete]

ABC and CNN are both saying the Secret Service showed up at Biden's house in Delaware around 9 pm Eastern.

There are times I really like Biden and there are times I'm completely disgusted with him and think he's a total slimeball. I guess the best way I can sum up Joe Biden is this: he's the Darcy Tucker/Sean Avery of politics. His opponents hate his guts, so you love having him on your team. He's a total pitbull. His mouth ought to be registered as a weapon. Basically they're banking on the fact Biden can be the a-hole to McCain that Obama can't be with his message of post-partisanship. Put simply, his saving grace is that he hates the Republicans almost as much as rank-and-file Democrats too. I expect this move really helps shore up the base inside the party. Not a bad idea. Obama's doing relatively well with Independents and Republicans. Where he's underperforming is with white Democrats. Enter your fire breathing attack dog working class Catholic bruiser. One or two exchanges with the McCain camp and you're going to see some fence sitters rally around him, and Obama.

Ideologically, he's ok with me. He's a little too chummy with the banking industry, but by and large he's your typical old school Eastern Seaboard Democrat. He's got the plagiarism issue that the Republicans will be squealing about at least until November, and he's made some racist comments in the past but the GOP can't make too much hay about that (because they're banking on the racist vote, to a degree). And, honestly, he looks and talks like a slimey lawyer... a blunt, rusty butcher knife of a slimey lawyer.

He doesn't help much electorally, except perhaps in Northern Virginia where I gather he has some support. Doesn't really set up the party for 2016 should Obama win a second term. Biden might need to step aside in 2012 if the Democrats want to groom somebody for 2016.

I give it a C. Very average. Maybe a C+.

The good news is that it's not Evan Bayh.

[Hoek]

So basically he's the Democrat version of Dick Cheney.

[Maverick9911]

Got the text at 3:27, confirming its Biden.

I figured they picked him for exactly the reasons Pete described - its a way for the Obama camp to start punching back at all the mud being thrown from the McCain campaign (which pretty much describes their entire strategy so far) without making Obama himself look bad. I can just imagine Biden in the debate vs. Romney or the Demindepublican. He's got the deep working class roots that do well in the Rust Belt. The pundits will say it proves Obama has zero foreign policy knowledge and that he needs a tutor on board (but as far as I know, Barack is aware of the Czech Republic and knows the difference between Sunni and Shia) but any choice he made was going to get hammered and dissected regardless.

Some people were in a frenzy last night saying that Obama has known this for weeks and was being unfair to the media by not telling them earlier. Considering the way they've been on his case the last few weeks, he doesn't owe them crap.

[WaiverWire]

They said the text came out at the hour it did because someone in the camp leaked the information to the press who broke Biden as the choice at 1:00 AM.

I have been on the fence during this whole process, I am catholic, and was a member of a profession that has always been filled by the working class. But as Pete said, Biden is slim. There was a reason he could never get his act together when attempting to run for President. This choice has just sealed the deal for me.

Give me a ballot, I am ready to vote.

[pete]

So basically he's the Democrat version of Dick Cheney.

Correct. He'll be the hatchetman out on the campaign trail and if Obama gets into office he'll be the enforcer who insures loyalty inside the administration.

The media is already getting even with Obama. I hope America is paying attention, because they're acting like petulent children and it's obvious what their motivation is:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080823/ap_on_el_pr/veepstakes_analysis
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080823/ap_on_el_pr/obama_ready_to_lead

It's hilarious really. The AP publishes, almost simultaneously, articles claiming that choosing Biden shows that Obama lacks confidence in himself because he chose someone so seasoned for the ticket, and then another article slamming him for his lack of experience. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I bet they fawn all over Romney when McCain picks him though, and I bet they don't mention the fact that part of picking Romney is because McCain sucks at fundraising and because money conservatives want Romney on the ticket to groom him for 2012 because they feel like McCain's probably going to LOSE.

I think the text message publicity stunt will give Obama/Biden a bounce no matter what the media says, and it's so close to the convention there isn't really time for them to twist the knife in Barack over this pick. I give a lot of credit to Axlerod and the rest of Obama's people. I may not agree with who they picked, but this rollout has been excellent. It's generated a lot of suspense and excitement and really promoted the new ticket. The showmanship is something that a lot of campaigns in the future are sure to want to emulate.

What the Obama people are also banking on, presuming the brats in the media will report on it, is that Joe Biden is probably the least wealthy member of the Senate. He's one of the few people in that chamber who isn't a millionaire. I think his net worth is somewhere between $200-300,000. He's not hurting, mind you, but he's not a limousine liberal, and they're planning on turning McCain's narrative about Obama being an elitist back onto McCain by pointing out that both Obama and Biden came from modest backgrounds and worked their way up, and both can give you a straight answer on how many houses they own and both think that the cut off for being middle class isn't $5 million dollars and they both don't believe that America is a "nation of whiners" and that their economic concerns are psychological. They are closer to being middle class Americans than John McCain and his 12 houses and Mitt Romney and his 3 houses and his net worth of hundreds of millions.

Point blank: get ready for good old fashioned class warfare starting at the convention, and at the ballot box class warfare favors the Democrats, which is why Republicans squeal so much anytime Democrats attack the privilege of wealth, because there's a heckuva lot more people in this country who make less than $600,000 a year than there are people who make more than that.

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/28416/GR2008061200193.jpeg

[pete]

Joe Biden's greatest hit: smacking down Rudy Giuliani.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPOAKXBi9Pw

This is what Obama's banking on. Biden's just a buzzsaw of negativity when he gets going.

[jaydeedub]

I'm not the biggest fan of Biden's. Being the younger guy I am and hearing Obama talk about "Change" over and over, and that was his message: going with Biden doesn't show change to me. Biden has been a Senator 7 years longer than I am old, yesh (since '73). Not only may he have his slim ball side, but his track record and message was not that the same as Obama. Biden also voted to go to war with Iraq. But I'll wait and see, watch the debates and so on. Just kind of disappointed, almost let down feeling.
And I can not stand Dick Cheney, so if Biden turns out to be anything like him please shoot me now.


*Forgot to add-so who is McCain going to choose? Mittens?

[Sotnos]

Where's that graphic from Pete? Very interesting.

Says it all IMO.

[Flycoon]

They said the text came out at the hour it did because someone in the camp leaked the information to the press who broke Biden as the choice at 1:00 AM.

I have been on the fence during this whole process, I am catholic, and was a member of a profession that has always been filled by the working class. But as Pete said, Biden is slim. There was a reason he could never get his act together when attempting to run for President. This choice has just sealed the deal for me.

Give me a ballot, I am ready to vote.

What if your candidate runs with a Mormon who has changed positions more times than a Russian gymnast following the Kama Sutra?

[WaiverWire]

Biden is a much bigger slim.

I am not a fan of Romney, but I have not heard of his religion getting in the way during his political career.

When we took over as governor of Massachusetts the state had a deficit of 3 billion. 4 years later he left and the state had a surplus of 700 million. He did this by tax increases and cutting corporate tax loop holes. When the state was back in the black the taxes were reduced. One has to admit the guy did what needed to do in order to fix a mess. I wonder if he would not be so bad if he could turn our current mess around.

Romney also has not used someone else's speech when campaigning and has not made comments such as "clean" nor commented about the owners of certain stores.

[Maverick9911]

His potential boss has talked about gooks, doesn't mind supporters calling women bitches and approves his underlings using all kinds of race baiting smears against his opponent, but that's ok - it's John McCain. Reading that assessment I thought of Bill Clinton for a second but since he's a Dem, all we would hear is "RAISED TAXES!".

It's hilarious really. The AP publishes, almost simultaneously, articles claiming that choosing Biden shows that Obama lacks confidence in himself because he chose someone so seasoned for the ticket, and then another article slamming him for his lack of experience. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I bet they fawn all over Romney when McCain picks him though, and I bet they don't mention the fact that part of picking Romney is because McCain sucks at fundraising and because money conservatives want Romney on the ticket to groom him for 2012 because they feel like McCain's probably going to LOSE.


They will. McCain could pick Dane Cook as his VP and his balls would be licked from here to eternity. Pawlenty, a pick solely to help his flagging poll numbers in Minnesota will be praised as a stroke of genius. Had Obama picked Sebelius to help him in Kansas, they would've called it selfish. Obama was screwed in their eyes no matter whom he picked. Sebelius would've been double "inexperience" and a slap in Hillary's face. Bayh and Kaine would've been too unknown. Richardson and Powell would've been pandering to the Hispanics or "too ethnic". He times his pick to minimize the uproar before the convention and the MSM freaks out. McCain says he'll name his the day after the Dem convention ends to cut into Obama's bounce and they hail it as genius.

I'm sick of them all. Dobbs, Scarborough, Larry King...I could live without all of them. I don't need them praising Obama for everything because I sure as hell don't, but Jesus Christ could you be any less obvious? For all the crap I hear about him being the media's "preferred" candidate, it makes me sick. The only reason they even dared to ask if McCain's campaign was too negative is likely because he's denied them access as of recent to minimize the chance of them reporting his almost regular gaffes.

I think the text message publicity stunt will give Obama/Biden a bounce no matter what the media says, and it's so close to the convention there isn't really time for them to twist the knife in Barack over this pick. I give a lot of credit to Axlerod and the rest of Obama's people. I may not agree with who they picked, but this rollout has been excellent. It's generated a lot of suspense and excitement and really promoted the new ticket. The showmanship is something that a lot of campaigns in the future are sure to want to emulate.

For them to say that he's "betrayed" his base by having the info leak out is just laughable. It was a LEAK.

What the Obama people are also banking on, presuming the brats in the media will report on it, is that Joe Biden is probably the least wealthy member of the Senate. He's one of the few people in that chamber who isn't a millionaire. I think his net worth is somewhere between $200-300,000. He's not hurting, mind you, but he's not a limousine liberal, and they're planning on turning McCain's narrative about Obama being an elitist back onto McCain by pointing out that both Obama and Biden came from modest backgrounds and worked their way up, and both can give you a straight answer on how many houses they own and both think that the cut off for being middle class isn't $5 million dollars and they both don't believe that America is a "nation of whiners" and that their economic concerns are psychological. They are closer to being middle class Americans than John McCain and his 12 houses and Mitt Romney and his 3 houses and his net worth of hundreds of millions.

Point blank: get ready for good old fashioned class warfare starting at the convention, and at the ballot box class warfare favors the Democrats, which is why Republicans squeal so much anytime Democrats attack the privilege of wealth, because there's a heckuva lot more people in this country who make less than $600,000 a year than there are people who make more than that.

99th out of 100 last I checked, but all the McCain camp has to do is fudge their numbers and say "2nd most liberal and 2nd richest" and their LIVs will eat it up. They were the ones spending the entire summer attacking Obama for having a Chicago "mansion" and sipping on rare organic green tea, trying vainly to paint him as an elitist (Funny how the Ivy League was a boon for Dubya yet it proves Obama is nothing more than an uppity elitist). They've already started the "Obama is attacking the American Dream" meme. It's ok though, cause even though McCain has admitted he isn't well versed and informed on the economy, he DOES have Greenspan's book and will read it soon.

Being the younger guy I am and hearing Obama talk about "Change" over and over, and that was his message: going with Biden doesn't show change to me. Biden has been a Senator 7 years longer than I am old, yesh (since '73). Not only may he have his slim ball side, but his track record and message was not that the same as Obama. Biden also voted to go to war with Iraq. But I'll wait and see, watch the debates and so on. Just kind of disappointed, almost let down feeling.
And I can not stand Dick Cheney, so if Biden turns out to be anything like him please shoot me now.

I see Biden as being tough but not arrogant and completely unreasonable like Cheney. If he disagrees with Obama, he'll let it be known but in this potential presidency, the buck will end with Barack. Biden won't be in a perpetual undisclosed location and devoid of any morals and ethics, but he may drop a "Go f--k yourself". I know a lot of people are surprised and think this move doesn't signify proper change. Like Pete said, he was damned either way. Had he picked a "green" like Sebelius or Kaine, he would've been lambasted for being way too inexperienced either way. Pick an experienced candidate and it proves he's inexperienced and needs an "on the fly" tutor. Biden did vote for the war but almost immediately wished he could change it and was very vocal about preconditions and terms for entering the region. Let's face it, most people did approve of the war six years ago and many don't today - I think as Obama has always said, he would want to work closest with those (like Lincoln) who occasionally or regularly disagreed with him or had different views at one point or another. Biden got it wrong but didn't pull the quick, convenient U-turn a la Hillary, so I can give him that for now.

In a few weeks I doubt many will still be harping about the VP pick. You'll have your disappointed Hildawgs and the "undecided" who habitually attack anything Obama does and spew out all the McCain defenses like clockwork but in the end, Obama is the one who will be calling the shots in this potential administration.

[TexasBolt]

When we took over as governor of Massachusetts the state had a deficit of 3 billion. 4 years later he left and the state had a surplus of 700 million. He did this by tax increases and cutting corporate tax loop holes. When the state was back in the black the taxes were reduced. One has to admit the guy did what needed to do in order to fix a mess. I wonder if he would not be so bad if he could turn our current mess around.

Romney also has not used someone else's speech when campaigning and has not made comments such as "clean" nor commented about the owners of certain stores.

How many of those principles do you think survived to this day? Judging by the nonsense that came out of his mouth during the primaries, I'm going to guess not much.

In fact, that makes him a perfect choice for McCain! Two guys who have completely renounced any and all moderate, maverick ideals they used to have (although they reserve the right to campaign as if they still had them) so they can be the gun-loving, tax-hating right-wing suits that the religious right demands.

[WaiverWire]

Please.......both sides have and will say what they have to say in order to gain the support of their own party.

In politics words mean nothing. One is judged by their actions that are on the record....their votes while in office.

[pete]

Where's that graphic from Pete? Very interesting.

That graphic is from a joint study by the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institute as reported in the Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html

If you make less that $111,000, which I'm sad to say includes me, Obama's tax cuts put more money in your pocket than McCain's do. Point blank.

[pete]

I see Biden as being tough but not arrogant

No, he's arrogant. He thinks his poo doesn't stink. That's why he rains down righteous anger when he speaks, because he believes he's always right.

Mind you, I think the Democrats have needed someone who could lose their temper and show some righteous anger for the past two presidential election cycles. Lieberman, Kerry, and Edwards were unwilling to play hardball, and for some reason it was decided that Al Gore should be de-fanged for the 2000 election. Obama's the same way. He thinks punching someone in the nose rhetorically is beneath the office of president, and it is. But, the American people won't give the highest offices in the land to people who don't show a willingness to fight to get it.

Enter Biden. He looked genuinely pissed even while accepting the VP nomination today. He'd bite the head off a puppy if you told him the puppy voted for Bush.

[Flycoon]

Please.......both sides have and will say what they have to say in order to gain the support of their own party.

In politics words mean nothing. One is judged by their actions that are on the record....their votes while in office.

McCain voted with the Bush crowd 95% in the last 4 years. And he "supported the troops" by voting against the GI Bill and Veterans Benefits. Those actions should scream at you.

[Flycoon]

That graphic is from a joint study by the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institute as reported in the Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html

If you make less that $111,000, which I'm sad to say includes me, Obama's tax cuts put more money in your pocket than McCain's do. Point blank.

Same reported in the NYT today. Middle class tax cut, repeal of the Bush gift to the wealthy.

Interesting article on Obamanomics in their magazine as well.

[Flycoon]

That's why he rains down righteous anger when he speaks, because he believes he's always right.

He is in touch with his female side, LOL.

[WaiverWire]

McCain voted with the Bush crowd 95% in the last 4 years. And he "supported the troops" by voting against the GI Bill and Veterans Benefits. Those actions should scream at you.

Fly, this is not true. Where did you get your facts? According to the Times he voted 95% only in 2007, and as low as 77% in other years.

[Flycoon]

Fly, this is not true. Where did you get your facts?

NYT, Washington Post, NBC, ABC, CBS.

And if he "only" voted with Bush in 2007, that is much worse. By then he should have seen what was going on in this administration rather than pandering to them for fundraising and electioneering.

"Original Maverick" my ass. The consummate DC insider.

[Maverick9911]

And he "supported the troops" by voting against the GI Bill and Veterans Benefits. Those actions should scream at you.

Even worse, he skipped the vote entirely (which has been pretty common for him the last couple of years). Went against it with W and then both had the gall to praise each other for the bill's creation once it passed. His voting record for his beloved vets is awful.

[TexasBolt]

I saw an article in my local paper today pointing out Biden's low net worth, which is less than his $169,300 salary as a Senator.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/50186.html

And Biden — son of blue collar workers and a man whose net worth of less than $150,000 makes him one of the poorest members of the Senate — can speak to white, working class voters in a way that Obama might not.

If McCain is crazy enough to pick Romney it will be a debacle for them. You couldn't possibly choose two people who are more out of touch with the problems people are having with their finances right now.

[Maverick9911]

But his defense is that its unjustly attacking the American Dream. How dare we peons attack them for being successful, its all psychological.

And of course, when being interviewed about the house gaffe by that titan of journalism Katie Couric, he cited his POW imprisonment...again.

[WaiverWire]

Well Fly the SP Times info comes from the Congressional Quarterly

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/643/


If I remember, and I can't take the time to look as I am getting ready to take my son back to school in Cleveland, many of McCain's votes against giving the troops and Vets what they needed was because others placed so much pork in the bills it was a joke. that is what he has been known for on the Hill, cutting pork.

Can you explain Obama's votes and then flat out killing a bill that would prevent the taking of a life when an abortion is botched and the fetus is alive and surviving on their own? Or why was there pressure placed on Princeton University to remove Michelle Obama's thesis? The thesis, titled "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community" and written under her maiden name, Michelle LaVaughn Robinson, in 1985. Princeton has removed the thesis from their library until after the election. Those close to her then have said that her views then are the same as Rev Whites now. Is this why they went to that church, that is until it became an issue?

[Donnie D]

Very, Very Disappointed - no make that really pissed off.

Puts McCain in play for me and I never thought I would say that. I even took off the Obama bumper sticker this morning. If Obama is not capable of making quality personnel decisions, he has no business being President.

Good thing I'm not an Obama delegate, I'd try and put Clinton's name in nomination for VP. If Obama is too stupid to select the one individual that can win him this election, he needs the delegates to do it for him.

Maybe sanity will return when the anger wears off, but right now....

[Sotnos]

Can you explain Obama's votes and then flat out killing a bill that would prevent the taking of a life when an abortion is botched and the fetus is alive and surviving on their own?Probably because that sounds like a bullshit issue thrown out by the religious right. That's an utter joke, I'd like to see the # of cases where such a thing has even happened!

[Flycoon]

Puts McCain in play for me and I never thought I would say that.

Man, that is extreme. I can't imagine a scenario that would put McCain in play for me.

Biden wouldn't have been my choice, but as a sitting Senator, he is way more respectable than McCain.

[aapbolt]

Not the best choice for Obama, I had hoped for better from him. for all his talk about getting away from the partisanship he turns around and picks Biden, who is a slimeball, ala dick Cheney without money. OMG there were so many better choices for him to make. Well only time will tell if this is a mistake or not, now we have to wait and see who McCain picks. Believe me if he picks someone younger like Pawlenty or a woman it will throw the election into chaos. Dem. Women I know are not happy anyway and, well, maybe Biden as a traditional democrat will pull them in, only time will tell.

[WaiverWire]

Probably because that sounds like a bullshit issue thrown out by the religious right. That's an utter joke, I'd like to see the # of cases where such a thing has even happened!

I just heard about this last week and have been trying to look into it as much as possible. I watched a brief video on one of the news channels but what struck me was a transcript of a floor debate between Obama and then Senator O'Malley of the Illinois State Senate. O'Malley is on the record and states that as many as 25% of the abortions in Illinois were alive when taken. One nurse stated it was not uncommon to hold the fetus for 45 minutes will alive on it's own. I think the bill was to ask for a second medical opinion as to if the fetus could survive a normal life with the help of medical attention.

Man that 25% sure sounds high. Makes one wonder what the real stats are.

Well the car is packed, so it's off to Cleveland.

[RSchmitz]

Biden brings nothing to the ticket, and severely diminishes Obamas appeal for me. And if what Pete says is true, it is a terrible strategy employed by him which is only going to work on stupid people. "Vote for me, I am not as filthy rich as my opposition". Sorry Barrack, that isn't change

[Sotnos]

O'Malley is on the record and states that as many as 25% of the abortions in Illinois were alive when taken. One nurse stated it was not uncommon to hold the fetus for 45 minutes will alive on it's own. OK, going by that bit of info, I tried to find more about this, since (without getting graphic) this sounded VERY hokey. As I figured, they're talking about late-term abortions only, so that first figure is a complete fabrication. Women get those mostly because the fetus isn't viable, not to mention these are very rare to begin with (1000/year in the U.S. from the stats I saw). Like I said, this is a non-issue, if it does happen it's incredibly rare, the nurse quoted said it happened ONCE. The rest is just propaganda, I mean who wants to come out on the side of letting infants die? Just doesn't sound good! If Obama voted against it for the reasons I saw (the bill tried to outlaw these procedures altogether without provisions for life or death situations for the mother, unconstitutional) then good for him to not give in to the scaremongering. Not trying to be obnoxious here WW, just trying to get some perspective out there as there's definitely more than one side to this story!

I find it offensive that the party that is all worried about the unborn don't seem to care what happens to children once they're here, as long as they're kept out of the hands of gay parents!! *sigh*

[Flycoon]

Biden brings nothing to the ticket, and severely diminishes Obamas appeal for me. And if what Pete says is true, it is a terrible strategy employed by him which is only going to work on stupid people. "Vote for me, I am not as filthy rich as my opposition". Sorry Barrack, that isn't change

Don't get your panties in a bunch, Biden is going to be VP. And will have nowhere as much power as Dick "Dark Lord" Cheney has had.

[pete]

He can't pick Pawlenty. Biden would eat him alive in the VP debate on foreign policy. This really ties McCain's hands. He has to pick someone with foreign policy experience or at least one of the former presidential candidates, like Romney, who have some clue how to debate on foreign policy.

Word on the street for the past two weeks is McCain has already picked Romney and it'll be announced the day after the Democratic Convention to try to blunt the bounce Obama's going to get from his acceptance speech.

Dollars to donuts, whoever McCain picks, Biden's going to kill them in the debate. Write it down. He's going to kick their ass. Whether you like Biden or hate Biden, Biden knows what the heck he's talking about.

[Donnie D]

The Vice Presidential Debate has no impact on who wins the presidential election. If it had any impact Dan Quayle would never have held the office.

[Maverick9911]

Like was said before, Obama wasn't going to get massive support for anyone he picked. Biden was the guy the GOP didn't want him to select because he absolutely negates McCain's foreign policy "credentials" and expertise - that's Biden's house. It's nothing to do with the debates, though as Pete said it helps (and believe me, I know plenty who were actually swayed by Edwards' lack of bite in his debate with Voldemort). The GOP has come out for weeks saying they intend to lie, smear and throw the kitchen sink at Obama. Suddenly he picks a guy who will have his back without allowing him to step in the mud and that's a horrible thing? They may like to believe they have cornered the market on patriotism, religion and national security but not all opponents will be as passive as Kerry.

I was reviewing an interesting Rasmussen poll this morning that showed Biden had the second most favorable numbers of all the VP candidates, second only to Hillary (67-75). When it came to independent voters, Biden had the higest favorable rating - Hillary the absolute worst. This is just my opinion but I know it has been said many times before: this is not an election of Obama supporters vs. McCain supporters. This election is about those who support him vs. those who don't. McCain's base is lukewarm at best and his summer of "here and there again" pandering isn't helping his case. He's not campaigning on issues (hard to when you openly admit you don't understand the economy, that it is sound and all our problems are psychological and that we just need to work two jobs). Instead, they want to be Rovian and focus on the real problems at hand: whether Barack Obama is a celebrity in the mold of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton, whether he vacations in exotic places such as Hawaii, whether he's a secret Muslim and what his wife wrote in a term paper. That's what they want to focus on, to chip away and divide - and for as much as its abhorred, it actually works on many of these rubes. Obama will get some points for this seven houses deal but that should disappear within a week - unlike McCain, they aren't campaigning on quips and innuendo.

Oh yeah, the paper. No one could ever show me where the paper was published (with my right wing friends I hear them say one minute that they have read the entire thing, though conveniently they never give actual "offensive" quotes and then the next they say its locked away like the Ark of the Covenant). Sure enough its available in a four part PDF file on Politico. Like I said earlier, shocking that a young black woman in the Ivy League found herself struggling to come to terms with her racial identity and a lack of acceptance in a historically white institution. She wasn't the first and she most certainly won't be the last. Huey Newton she is not.

I know there are people who were holding out for Hillary, but it just wasn't the best choice. Easiest choice, maybe, but not the best. CNN and the like will run with this for as long as they can to try and create division but when her supporters see just how different the candidates are (especially when it comes to women, you can't get any worse than the opponent), it will be moot. Hillary, sad to say, would have done more to mobilize the Republicans than the Democrats. They had been preparing info and smears on her for over a year now and the people who aren't all that happy about having to vote (if they do) for McCain would have relished the opportunity to go after another Clinton. Biden doesn't represent a deviation from change - that's all Obama, and to get his plans working he's going to need the full support of the Congress and his second in command. The change meme isnt made or destroyed by the choice of the VP alone; it is signified by the grassroots uprising of common folk uniting to become involved in government. Biden will be loyal but he isn't a yes man by any means (or a secret overlord doing his own work a la Cheney). Some of the other choices may have signified change but once you got past the dressing, there was little else to work with. Biden may be older and more established but there's plenty of positive with him - nothing to jump ship over.

[RSchmitz]

Don't get your panties in a bunch, Biden is going to be VP. And will have nowhere as much power as Dick "Dark Lord" Cheney has had.

Don't get my panties in a bunch? Come on now

[pete]

The VP debates do matter if they throw a monkey wrench into the entire narrative of the campaign, and nothing would throw a monkey wrench into the narrative of this campaign quite as much as Joe Biden slaughtering Pawletny or another newbie lightweight like a newborn calf on national security. National security is supposed to be McCain and the GOP's uncontested terrain. Joe Biden is capable of taking every single one of their VP hopefuls to school on national security. Believe me, McCain's people know it, and they're scared of it. McCain himself has made so many gaffes about national security facts over the past few months, I'd be sweating bullets if I were his campaign because, unlike Obama, Biden can pick up those unforced errors and club you to death with them politically. And he's just charismatic enough (in his slimey lawyer way) that the media will cover it.

[timothy]

McCain himself has made so many gaffes about national security facts over the past few months, I'd be sweating bullets if I were his campaign because, unlike Obama, Biden can pick up those unforced errors and club you to death with them politically. And he's just charismatic enough (in his slimey lawyer way) that the media will cover it.

But the trick is for Biden to do it in such a way that he doesn't look like he's the presidential nominee.

[jaydeedub]

But the trick is for Biden to do it in such a way that he doesn't look like he's the presidential nominee.

Praise Obama more than he praises himself. Might be hard for him though.

[aapbolt]

My republican friends are talking about the problems with McCain so far and the missteps in his campaign and are already starting to wonder who will step up in four years. McCain is really stuck and needs to pull someone younger who can balance the ticket age wise in order to maintain the base. Romney just has too many weaknesses and the progressives are ready to bolt if it is Romney or one of the arch right wing conservatives. so far McCain has done very little to attract the moderate base of the party who are looking for a balanced budget, less taxes on the middle class and a restructuring of government to meet the demands of the 21st century. He needs to take a big step forward and shake up the party a bit. As to Biden chewing up people, yes he can but will he scare people like Al Gore did or just make himself look like a slimeball attack dog? biden has to be careful, he has a past and a record that can be easily attacked and a good debater or at least pros who can get someone ready for the debate can structure arguments to hit him where it hurts. what is of interest to me is that there appear to be many people who are stuck in the middle and have not made any decision on who to vote for, R's and D's, it is almost like they are waiting for something to galvanize the choice in their own hearts and minds.

[Flycoon]

Pick rotten Rudy and it's over. DO IT OLD MAN!!!!!

[the_narrow_way]

Very, Very Disappointed - no make that really pissed off.
You're angry, but why?

[Donnie D]

I am not a Biden fan. Personally, he has a great story...losing his wife, communting back and forth to spend time with his family every night...that's a story that should be right in line with the pro family group of the Rep. party.

But with his mouth, he seems to be always sticking his foot into it and his concepts aren't always well thought out. He has a smugness that I don't think will play well.

My biggest problem is that I don't think that Obama wins without independents (he trails by 11% in the latest polls) and by bringing the Clinton voters back into the fold. He needed to do exactly what Kennedy did - hold his nose and select his rival to be the VP if he wanted to get elected. Yes she and Bill would be a problem, but the primary goal is to win. Biden does nothing to help him win - and in fact hurts in that he is another New England liberal.

I expected Obama to carry out his theme of reinventing government, not picking a Washington insider.

[pete]

With all due respect to Dubya, I think a lot of people knew in 2000 and 2004 they were really voting for President Cheney.

[pete]

My biggest problem is that I don't think that Obama wins without independents (he trails by 11% in the latest polls)

That's not true. Obama's doing well among independents. He's not really down by 11%. If he was, he'd be getting blown out.

And if Biden is a Washington insider, what does that make Hillary Clinton? If he really wanted to pick an outsider, he'd have picked Mark Warner or Brian Schweitzer.

[Donnie D]

That's not true. Obama's doing well among independents. He's not really down by 11%. If he was, he'd be getting blown out.

The August 11 - 17 Gallup Poll showed McCain leading among independents 34 - 24%. It narrowed the following week.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108049/Candidate-Support-Political-Party-Ideology.aspx

24% of all Clinton primary voters now say that they will vote for McCain. Hillary best do a huge speech tonight to get them to come home.

[astro]

24% of all Clinton primary voters now say that they will vote for McCain. Hillary best do a huge speech tonight to get them to come home.

they are closet republicans like the clintons. :D

[pete]

The August 11 - 17 Gallup Poll showed McCain leading among independents 34 - 24%.

My God. They pushed no leaners in that poll then with 42% undecided.

All other polling this cycle shows Obama outperforming Kerry and Gore among Republicans and Independents. Where he's been soft is in his base support among Democrats. The tightrope he's walking is trying to pull them in without losing the Republicans and Independents he has. The hope (and I think it's a valid one) is that the convention brings the rest of the Democratic base home.

[Donnie D]

You are right Pete, his support among the base is weak. According to MSNBC last night, Kerry had the support of 89% of all Democrats going into his convention. Obama is at 80%. That translates into 4% on the national level.

I thought Hillary did an outstanding job. To me the best lines were when she talked about the issues that made her run and then she challenged her supporters with the question did you do this for me or for the issues that I represented, if you did this because you believe in the principles that I fought for? If it's the latter, you have to vote for Obama. I don't know what more she could have done.

But the rest of the convention....who is selecting these speakers and who is responsible for getting them on the theme of the election? Warner, the Keynote speaker, was just awful in promoting Obama. A keynote speaker that only mentioned McCain twice and talked about "can't we all just get along." I know that he needs to deliver that type of speach if he wants to win in Virginia, but then someone should have said that he isn't the guy to be the keynote speaker and deliver the fire at the convention. They needed their own version of a Spiro Agnew. Instead they got Mr. Rogers.

When Pat Buchanen has to give advice to the Democrats, you know this convention isn't going well.

[pete]

When Pat Buchanen has to give advice to the Democrats, you know this convention isn't going well.

Pat Buchanan's trolling on MSNBC should be of no concern to the Democrats. The man has an agenda, and if Jesus Christ himself showed up to endorse Obama that man would try to spin it as a negative.

Michelle Obama was fairly strong on Monday. Schweitzer and Hillary were strong on Tuesday, although the big networks didn't cover Schweitzer's speech for the most part. Bill Clinton and Biden should be strong tonight, and I believe Kerry is speaking tonight too. I forget what night they were plugging Gore in. And, obviously, Thursday night will be the main event. A good convention crescendos. The only thing that scares me is that they're not spending enough time on the economy.

Besides. Obama at Mile High Stadium is going to be amazing. Remember in 2000 the Democratic convention was pretty terrible right up until the end when Gore gave a long and rambling but passionate and heartfelt speech. That speech, the people versus the powerful speech, gave him a gigantic bounce and helped him catch Bush and win the popular vote. The anchor leg can make up for a lot of sins in a relay race like this.

[TexasBolt]

But the rest of the convention....who is selecting these speakers and who is responsible for getting them on the theme of the election? Warner, the Keynote speaker, was just awful in promoting Obama.

Basically Hillary was the keynote speaker, even though she's not the up-and-comer that usually get to deliver that speech.

You should also go back and find Dennis Kucinich's speech if you want some red meat. I think the guy's a little wacky and I start shaking my head every time he jumps off the tracks into impeaching Bush (it's not worth it at this point), but he can get the crowd worked up.

Finally, no one heard it but Kathleen Sebelius's Wizard of Oz line on McCain was classic. "There's no place like home. And home. And home. And home."

[Donnie D]

I thought Gore was Thursday, but the official speakers list for Thursday hasn't been released by the DNC.

Tonight hour #1 between 3:00 and 5:00 local (3 - 5 is only 1 hour.) That's the roll call vote.

Hour #4 begins at 5:00 (Yes, we have started hour #4 two hours after hour #1) Mayor Daley and Wexler

Hour #5 is at 7:00 (We got it right!) Clinton & Kerry

Hour #6 at 8:00 (On a roll now) Biden

[pete]

I think the guy's a little wacky

Dennis Kucinich is certifiable. Like his message. Not exactly the messenger you want, though.

Get the popcorn out. Joe Biden is about to slaughter a herd of baby elephants on nationwide TV with his bare hands.

Even the man's smile looks a little like a scowl.

[pete]

Even Joe Biden's MOM is tough.

"Go back out and bloody their nose so you can walk down the street tomorrow."

[Donnie D]

I thought Brokow's description of President Clinton "Elvis is in the house" hit it right on the head. I don't know if Buchanan had an advance copy of the speech, but he sure did predict exactly what Clinton would do. Pat may be a right wing conservative, but I find him very objective when it comes to analysis.

President Clinton did everything and more tonight to put the primary behind and Biden gave an outstanding speech. Clinton answered the question by saying that Obama is ready to be President. Biden very effectively took on Obama's "weakness" on foreign policy by pointing out all of the times Obama was right and McCain was wrong on foreign policy issues. Obama coming out at the end was like the Beatles arriving in New York. Very good night for the Dems.

[Maverick9911]

Holy shit, who lit a fire under John Kerry's ass lol

[pete]

John Kerry got a bum wrap in 2004. He was a better candidate than people gave him credit for, and even in defeat a lot of Americans learned to respect that man even with the way they smeared that man's military service.

I, personally, believe there was only one man (Al Gore) who could've unseated a war time president in George Bush (because Al Gore could simply have said that he was the real president). I think he waged a campaign against long odds and did it in such a rational and dignified way that it held the election close and helped set the stage for the Democratic takeover of Congress and the huge surge in Democratic participation in the primaries this year. It started with Howard Dean bringing the emotion to the table and demanding the party show some balls, but Kerry, in his own long-winded way, framed the issues and planted the seeds against Bush. When he skinned Dubya alive in the first debate in 2004 by articulating his criticisms in an smart and inciteful way, that was the beginning of the end of the Bush dynasty.

I was sickened by the way that the media politically assassinated that man in 2006 over the whole, fake, "stuck in Iraq" comment flap, and I would love it if Obama found a place for Kerry somewhere in his cabinet.

[Maverick9911]

You could tell there was some lingering anger over 2004 in his voice, defending Obama against the same (even worse in some ways) disgusting bullshit they call campaigning. He did great.

Conflicting reports now about when McSame is going to name his VP - one report says tomorrow at 11am, the other on Friday. Romney is apparently tanking at Intrade and the big names being floated now are Kay Bailey Hutchison (pro choice, most campaign contributions from oil and gas than anyone in Congress), LIEBERMAN and Meg Whitman, ex CEO of Ebay.

Kinda hope its Whitman, if only to see McCain-Whitman: The GOP Party - Buy It Now" stickers.

[Sotnos]

Holy shit, who lit a fire under John Kerry's ass lolWell you guys convinced me to watch Kerry's speech with your comments. I only tuned in for Clinton then watched some of the later coverage. I thought Clinton was great, but Kerry was wonderful.

[TexasBolt]

Kinda hope its Whitman, if only to see McCain-Whitman: The GOP Party - Buy It Now" stickers.

Yeah, there go all the experience lines of argument. And Whitman knows squat about foreign policy.

[the_narrow_way]

Very good night for the Dems.
Yeah. The Convention gets better each night.

[the_narrow_way]

Holy shit, who lit a fire under John Kerry's ass lol
Heh, that was great. It's too bad MSNBC went to commercial during his speech.

[Donnie D]

The interview on NBC with Kerry was very good. Brian Williams asked him where was this fire and response to the swift boaters 4 years ago. That if he had responded to the swiftboaters as he did on Wednesday he could have been President. Kerry said that he screwed up. He thought the truth by being reported in the media and in his speeches was enough to counter the lies. In hindsight he was totally wrong, that's what he felt cost him the election (I agree). He felt that he needed to spend more of his advertising money countering the swiftboaters and that if he had it to do over again, that's where they would have spent their money.

He also said that he ran out of money and had to abandon Colorado and New Mexico early. Obama, with his war chest, isn't going to have that problem - he'll have the financial resources to counter the attacks.

[pete]

I still think it'll be Romney. The thing about Lieberman and Whitman is, they're risky moves and McCain's not down far enough in the polls to have to make such a risky move. Lieberman is Pro-Choice, anti-drilling in ANWR, etc etc. McCain pisses off his base with that move. Whitman undermines McCain's entire campaign rationale about experience, is a political noob so she'd make a ton of unforced errors at a time where McCain needs to be nearly mistake free, and she'd get eaten alive by Biden in the VP debates. And, Kay Bailey Hutchinson being Pro-Choice is a non-sequitor in McCain's base. Picking up a handful of disgruntled Clinton voters by doing that would be offset by a mass defection from evangelicals. I suppose she could have a 24-hour conversion like George HW Bush did in 1980, but in the media environment today, she'd probably get busted for the flip flop.

[Maverick9911]

Now word has it that they are going to "leak" the VP sometime around 8pm tonight to draw attention away from Obama. Plus, Mr. Manners is going to run some "historic and exciting" attack ad just after the acceptance speech where he is supposed to talk directly to Barack.

What a classy fellow.

[pete]

Apparently the buzz is now that it will be Lieberman. I, personally, still don't believe it. I'd be shocked if it isn't Romney. They even hate Joe in Connecticut these days, and Florida should be somewhere that McCain shouldn't need Joe's help.

Although there have been a couple of Florida polls out recently showing Obama in strong shape. Mason Dixon has Obama ahead 45-44 in Florida. Mason-Dixon is generally money as a polling firm in the South. Also, if you dig into the recent poll Survey USA did of the FL-21 district, Obama and McCain are tied 48-48. Now, understand, that is a district that has a large Cuban population, and Cuban-Americans in South Florida have always been fiercely Republican. Bush won in that district by 14 points in 2004. If Republican support among Cubans is eroding to anywhere near that level, McCain's in trouble. And, maybe that's why he'd consider Lieberman because he figures he can cut into Obama's margin amongst Jewish voters in South Florida.

http://www.swingstateproject.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=BF8062C57FD19D319DF52B4742 7DEFA1?diaryId=2899

So, to me, if he picks Lieberman it's an admission that his gamble of not running any ads in Florida while Obama has poured them on has backfired, and that he knows he has to make a game changing move to try and insure victory in Florida.

Now, remember, Florida is expensive as heck to advertise in because of it's size and the number of big media markets it has and McCain is on public financing. Also, remember Obama doesn't need Florida to win the electoral college. In fact, Florida's probably sixth or so down the list of states he is likely to win to carry him past 270 EVs well behind states like Colorado, Virginia, and Ohio.

If he picks Lieberman, that smells of desperation. That tells me their internals are showing that Obama's doing really well as far as a convention bounce, especially in Florida, and they're afraid he may run away with this thing if they don't do something big (and risky).

It should also tell you that McCain's losing independents. The problem is that while Lieberman may help him among independents (and even that isn't certain given the generic ballot advantage Democrats have among indies right now), he may cause evangelicals and conservatives to stay home by the droves.

[Maverick9911]

Now, understand, that is a district that has a large Cuban population, and Cuban-Americans in South Florida have always been fiercely Republican. Bush won in that district by 14 points in 2004. If Republican support among Cubans is eroding to anywhere near that level, McCain's in trouble.

I just saw today that the crooked Diaz-Balart congressmen are actually trailing. If those guys and that blowhard Ileana Ros-Lehtinen get bounced out I'll dance a merengue.

Oh, and his EXCITING ad is out. It's just him saying congrats and making a slight reference to the "I Have A Dream" anniversary (Obama is BLACK). If all they can fret about are the "foreign" columns on the stage tonight, I think we're about to see something extraordinary.

[Flycoon]

I just saw today that the crooked Diaz-Balart congressmen are actually trailing. If those guys and that blowhard Ileana Ros-Lehtinen get bounced out I'll dance a merengue.

Oh, and his EXCITING ad is out. It's just him saying congrats and making a slight reference to the "I Have A Dream" anniversary (Obama is BLACK). If all they can fret about are the "foreign" columns on the stage tonight, I think we're about to see something extraordinary.

Like a good old fashioned ass whuppin? I hope so.

I'm feeling like Alec Baldwin at this point but I don't have the assets to follow up on that threat/promise like he did.

[Maverick9911]

Totally missing the Baldwin reference but im on another planet right now. I do know that his brother Stephen says that he'll move abroad if Obama wins.

That's right, if Obama wins the White House the co-star of Bio-Dome will leave us :(

In my opinion, id be surprised if he even attacks McCain once tonight. He may make a couple of vague references to policy and the outgoing administration but tonight's just different. Next week will be nothing but smear and slander and I doubt McCain will be as gracious but that's not exactly a shock.

[Flycoon]

McCain is playing Russian Roulette. Who alienates the right wing Christian Base more; a Jew (Lieberman), a Mormon (Romney), or a retard (Kay Bailey Hutchinson or Tim Pawlenty). Terrible choices.

[Maverick9911]

In my opinion, id be surprised if he even attacks McCain once tonight. He may make a couple of vague references to policy and the outgoing administration but tonight's just different.

Color my ass wrong.

Damn. I mean...damn.

All I got right now.:faint:

[pete]

Neither Hutchinson nor Pawletny are retards. I can't stand Hutchinson, but I respect her as a politician. And, Pawletny should've lost and lost badly in the 2006 Minnesota governor's race but somehow managed to survive, so he's not to be underestimated. But Hutchinson is Pro-Choice and Pawletny brings less experience to the table than Obama and it's hard to whip a dead horse about "lack of experience to be commander in chief" when you pick a guy who has no foreign policy experience to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Plus, the obligatory: Joe Biden would destroy Pawletny in a debate. If it's a sit down format like Cheney/Lieberman in 2000, Biden will have him under the table in the fetal position wetting himself by the third question. Seriously, McCain should be charged for political malpractice if he does that. He'd be sending a boy to get his ass kicked by a man.

[pete]

Color my ass wrong.

Damn. I mean...damn.

The lesson (I hope) Obama and his people have learned is that America will not elect people to the highest office in the land who aren't willing to fight for it.

[pete]

Want a contrast?

Obama packed in over 75,000 people at Mile High Stadium tonight. People waited in line and fought hard for those tickets.

McCain hasn't yet been able to give away all of the 12,000 tickets for his VP announcement tomorrow at the Nutter Center.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/28/mccain_stadium_rally_has_ticke.html

Enthusiasm gap? Yep.

[Sotnos]

The lesson (I hope) Obama and his people have learned is that America will not elect people to the highest office in the land who aren't willing to fight for it.
Exactly. At first I really thought he might play it safe, but he built and built towards a strong message & hit on just about everything his critics have attacked him on. Other Dems in the past few elections probably just weren't aggresive enough. Great job tonight by Obama!

I was watching CNN, and one of their commentators was a Republican strategist who not only said he's happy he doesn't have a dog in this fight anymore but also said that whoever didn't get picked for McCain's VP is probably "one happy Republican". Pretty strong stuff from him & from some of those ordinary folks who spoke before Obama, I think at least 2 said they were recovering Republicans. :)

Oh, and Stephen Baldwin is an idiot, just had to get that out there.

[pete]

Well, yeah, I suppose they're an instant top contender for the nomination in 2012 after McCain gets his rear end handed to him.

Of course, that assumes there's anything left of them once Biden chews them up and spits them out. Seriously, I think trying to stem the tide of what we witnessed tonight by naming Tim Pawletny (who most Americans are going to look at and say, "Who?") or Mitt Romney (who most Americans already know is a phony) as VP is going to look like small ball. Microscopic. What Obama did tonight was history making, and I really think they run the risk of looking quite pathetic by comparison. I understand their rationale on paper. But my gosh, ball the paper up and throw it away after what went down tonight.

And I also think they seriously run the ultimate political risk if they really go through with their convention the same week Gustav is bearing down on New Orleans. I can't imagine a worse scenario for the Republicans than a split screen convention with the people of New Orleans drowning on one side and a bunch of lilywhite rich Republicans partying down in Minnesota on the other.

Somebody in that party has to have more common sense than to let that happen.

[Maverick9911]

I think at least 2 said they were recovering Republicans.

Republicans talk about putting “country first,” but tell that to Marion, Indiana. They sent my job overseas.

America can’t afford more of the same. We need a president who puts Barney Smith before Smith Barney.

[Sotnos]

I understand their rationale on paper. But my gosh, ball the paper up and throw it away after what went down tonight.
Not sure if you heard the McCain response, but man, if that's the best they've got...

And I also think they seriously run the ultimate political risk if they really go through with their convention the same week Gustav is bearing down on New Orleans. I can't imagine a worse scenario for the Republicans than a split screen convention with the people of New Orleans drowning on one side and a bunch of lilywhite rich Republicans partying down in Minnesota on the other.

Somebody in that party has to have more common sense than to let that happen.
They talked a bit about that on CNN also, apparently they're taking the "watch & see" attitude and have a lot of contingency plans. They said that if it looks like something is going to go down, McCain will probably spend the early part of the week in N.O. (or wherever) and they might postpone his acceptance speech. They're in worst case scenario-ville right now IMO, victims of a nasty storm with some bad timing.
Republicans talk about putting “country first,” but tell that to Marion, Indiana. They sent my job overseas.

America can’t afford more of the same. We need a president who puts Barney Smith before Smith Barney.
That guy was fricken' awesome, but all those people get full props from me. I hate public speaking, can't imagine doing it in front of thousands & knowing millions are watching on TV. I think we've all known people who've had similar circumstances to some of them, that was a great touch.

[TexasBolt]

Who the hell convinced McCain it was a good idea to roll out his VP selection in a building called the Nutter Center? :hysterical: :hysterical:

This has "demonic green screen" written all over it. If he blows this, they're right back where they were two months ago, and now Obama can just money-whip them.

[timothy]

What Obama did tonight was history making

I'm one of the guys who's been on the fence for the last 18 months. I'm not easily swayed, and I'm not a bandwagoner. I'm highly skeptical of big government and extremely skeptical of big party politics. I haven't voted Republican or Democrat since 1984 when I voted for Reagan when I was 18 years old. I guess that means I've never voted Democrat. I've always voted 3rd party or write-in.

But...

Obama's speech last night was very compelling. He feels like a different candidate than any in the past. I'm not quite there yet, as there remains obstacles to me voting for Obama, being as I'm an evangelical-turned-Catholic.

However, one of the many reasons I turned Catholic is because of their long history of social action. They marched for equal rights when evangelicals didn't get it. They marched for pro-life when evangelicals didn't get it. Catholic charities have a long and rich history of service to the orphans, widows, the poor and homeless, and the elderly. And there's an awful lot that I heard in Obama's speech last night that appeals to that part of my Catholicity.

History indeed.

[chad]

McCain picks Sarah Palin.

[the_narrow_way]

/cue game-show 'fail' sound effects

I've read up a bit on her, and she does seem to share a lot of common ground with McCain, so I don't fault him for liking her, but she's not the answer.

She sure isn't going to steal Hillary voters.

[Bolthed]

I'm one of the guys who's been on the fence for the last 18 months. I'm not easily swayed, and I'm not a bandwagoner. I'm highly skeptical of big government and extremely skeptical of big party politics. I haven't voted Republican or Democrat since 1984 when I voted for Reagan when I was 18 years old. I guess that means I've never voted Democrat. I've always voted 3rd party or write-in.

But...

Obama's speech last night was very compelling. He feels like a different candidate than any in the past. I'm not quite there yet, as there remains obstacles to me voting for Obama, being as I'm an evangelical-turned-Catholic.

However, one of the many reasons I turned Catholic is because of their long history of social action. They marched for equal rights when evangelicals didn't get it. They marched for pro-life when evangelicals didn't get it. Catholic charities have a long and rich history of service to the orphans, widows, the poor and homeless, and the elderly. And there's an awful lot that I heard in Obama's speech last night that appeals to that part of my Catholicity.

History indeed.

Very interesting, Tim. Thanks for sharing. I'm always curious about the ruminations of people who are in the formative stages of deciding their vote. You mentioned "obstacles." Are you saying Barack assuaged your pro-life concerns or that he merely got you thinking about voting for a pro-choice candidate for the first time (ever or in a long time)? And I'd love to know what other obstacles you may be wrestling with.

It's fascinating to me. I have no party affiliation or loyalty (in fact I hate whenever something feels politicky), but I suppose my ideals are closer to the Dems than the Reps. I hate to use a new cliche, but I know that it would take a "generational candidate" for me to even consider supporting someone with Republican ideals. Although I must note that I felt strongly persuaded by Ron Paul, who claimed to be more Republican than Republicans. His simple push for less government and more liberty, his dedication to the Constitution at a time when most politicians want to twist it ... well, I just wished he wasn't so marginalized as a candidate. He never stood a chance, so I never really got behind him, and in the process I eventually couldn't ignore what was happening with the masses of people supporting Obama with the kind of passion and enthusiasm for a politician I've never seen in my life.

Right now, it's pretty neat to see what Obama is doing - regardless of party or politics. It really does feel like a wave or a movement, and it really does feel like what this country needs to do - come together to face some serious problems. Even if there's not much difference anymore between party ideology, it has been proven that a unified and motivated America can overcome anything.

[TexasBolt]

McCain picks Sarah Palin.

Wait... what???

[pete]

He picked a woman who has less than 2 years of experience as governor, no foreign policy cred, and who is currently being investigated in an abuse of power scandal for trying to get one of her in-laws fired. But hey, she was former runner-up for Miss Alaska.

McCain just took his gun out of his holster and unloaded the whole clip in his foot. He's completely undermined his campaign's narrative about experience, toughness, and reform all in one fowl swoop. She's the female equivalent of Dan Quayle.

And Republicans just showed how little they understand the women's vote if they believe choosing an unqualified former beauty queen is really going to appeal to Clinton women looking for the fulfillment of the feminist movement. Even the most strident Clinton supporter will see this as empty, pathetic, desperate pandering.

Good job John McCain. You're done. He just completely lost this campaign all in the span of about 13-14 hours. Awesome.

[Maverick9911]

But hey, she was former runner-up for Miss Alaska.

McCain sure loves his beauty queens, that's for damn sure.

KBH was on CNN just when it was leaked and was floored. She praised Palin but then stammered "Well...I really don't know that much about her."

GOP snarkers are saying its a genius pick because now when Biden destroys her, it will make him look like a sexist bully. That plus they say the Dems can't challenge her weak resume because supposedly she's on par experience-wise with Obama (??). Shit, I knew McCain was obsessed with the disaffected PUMA votes but jeez, is this the best choice to be a heartbeat away from the highest office in the land when your boss is a 72 year old with a history of melanoma?

I think the only truly happy person today is Tina Fey, who gets to lampoon Sarah Palin no less than five times on SNL this season in guest spots.

[RSchmitz]

You know what, props to McCain. He chose the somebody who shares his ideas, and he also made history by choosing a woman as VP.

[Maverick9911]

Rove chose her. McCain was jonesing hard for Lieberman.

Palin: "As for that V.P. talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the V.P. does every day? I’m used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that V.P .slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question."

Jeez

[pete]

and he also made history by choosing a woman as VP.

Mondale chose Geraldine Ferraro as his running mate in '84. This wasn't history-making. This was pandering, and he didn't even pick the most qualified female candidate the GOP has.

[Donnie D]

I see it as his only shot - one could say it is a despirate shot. First things first, you have to get elected before you can govern. Yes, it's close right now, but the Clintons did everything they could to demonstrate suport for Obama. Obama had the support of 80% of the Ds going into the convention. He is going to leave with 85 - 87% (One still can't discount the older Roosevelt democrats that are still not going to vote for him because of his race and his name - so he may not get to where Kerry was.) But even so, that's a 3% increase in the national polls.

Obama's "weakness" is his foreign policy background. Biden took it on by looking at the 3 great foreign policy issues facing the country during the past 8 years and demonstrating that on each of them Obama was right and McCain was wrong. Great stuff. Just because you have experience, if you keep making dumb decisions as McCain has, what good is experience?

Last night Obama looked McCain in the eye and said "bring it on" unlike Kerry and his tepid responce to Bush's attack dogs. He did a great job negating the foreign policy and commander questions. On domestic policy, Obama is killing him. Obama took on McCain's strengths last night and smacked them right back at him.

So how can McCain win? Bush on Monday night isn't going to help. A hurricane threatening New Orleans isn't going to help. The best help Bush is going to give McCain is when he and Dicky get on Air Force 1 & 2 and get the hell out of town. How is McCain going to turn around the economic issues? He can't. Drilling is only going to get you so far. All he has left is the Foreign Policy and experience cards. And Obama and Biden have already shoved that down his throat.

So his only chance is to try and drive that wedge even further between Clinton supporters and Obama. He's where Dole was in 96. Where Mondale was in 84. Dead meat. He has nothing to lose by picking "a hockey mom" and maybe he hits a longshot. It's his only chance.

[the_narrow_way]

all in one fowl swoop.
LOL. Was that intentional? :p

As for that V.P. talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?
/guffaw :duh:

This wasn't history-making. This was pandering, and he didn't even pick the most qualified female candidate the GOP has.
/guffaw :duh:

[Donnie D]

Maybe sanity will return when the anger wears off

Sanity has returned. Well at least as close as I can get to being sane.

[pete]

Yeah, but if you were really going to make a play for Clinton's supporters, pick the qualified Pro-Choice candidate in Hutchison, not the unqualified beauty queen with an abuse of power investigation still ongoing.

Hillary's supporters are going to see right through this. They're not stupid. They're not going to flee the Democratic Party because John McCain picked an unqualified, Anti-Choice, former beauty queen. In a way, it's a slap in the face of these voters that McCain is cynical enough to believe it'll work.

[Maverick9911]

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz already pulled the "I worked with Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin, you're no Hillary Clinton." That was lightning fast.

Apparently her only talking points this morning were to bring up Hillary and basically admit she's there to get the women votes. Oh, and she once lowered property taxes in Wasilla.

CNN apparently said she has more executive experience than Obama and Biden COMBINED. WTF.

[Donnie D]

CNN apparently said she has more executive experience than Obama and Biden COMBINED. WTF.

She would. She is a gov. - they have both been in the legislative branch.

[Maverick9911]

Well yeah, that I get but that's their only way of legitimizing the pick. That and "Alaska is one of the largest states".

Truth on the outside but for what they are trying to prove is just silly.

[Flycoon]

She is no more qualified than Michael Palin. But almost as (unintentionally) funny.

[Flycoon]

A little more on Palin, http://voices.washingtonpost.com/washingtonpostinvestigations/2008/08/mccains_vp_pick_palin_facing_e.html.

And she is a supporter of Ted Stevens. Quite the "maverick".

[timothy]

but jeez, is this the best choice to be a heartbeat away from the highest office in the land when your boss is a 72 year old with a history of melanoma?

This is seems vaguely familiar to a recent short-lived TV series doesn't it?

[Maverick9911]

That calls for...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218

And while not nearly as funny, definitely worth a guffaw: Karl Rove discussing Tim Kaine as a potential VP for Obama on August 11th.

"Will all due respect again to Governor Kaine, he's been a governor for three years," Rove told Bob Schieffer. "He's been able but undistinguished. I don't think people could really name a big, important thing that he's done."

Rove even dragged Richmond into his sights. "[Kaine] was mayor of the 105th largest city in America," Rove said. "And again, with all due respect to Richmond, Virginia, it's smaller than Chula Vista, California; Aurora, Colorado; Mesa, or Gilbert, Arizona; North Las Vegas, or Henderson, Nevada. It's not a big town."


*Population of Virginia is 7.7 million. The population of Alaska is 683,478

[Maverick9911]

This is seems vaguely familiar to a recent short-lived TV series doesn't it?

It might be but I haven't been keeping up with TV for some time...South Park and Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares being the few exceptions.

[timothy]

It might be but I haven't been keeping up with TV for some time...South Park and Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares being the few exceptions.

Commander-in-Chief was the show I was thinking of...

[Maverick9911]

Ohhhh...the one with Geena Davis.

Never saw that show but was amazed at how quickly it fizzled out when it started off with such glowing reviews.

[TexasBolt]

(insert "Mystery, Alaska" joke here)

[RSchmitz]

Mondale chose Geraldine Ferraro as his running mate in '84. This wasn't history-making. This was pandering, and he didn't even pick the most qualified female candidate the GOP has.

He still made history, its the first time a female Republican VP has been nominated, and guarantees either a black man or woman will be in the white house.

[Donnie D]

I guess you aren't counting on McCain making it until he is 76???

[Maverick9911]

Nice to meet you, Sarah. Wanna potentially run the free world?

According to Andrea Mitchell and Chuck Todd, John McCain had only met Sarah Palin once or twice before selecting her to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Also, earlier today McCain's campaign chairman Sen. Lindsay Graham admitted that he had never met Palin, and Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison also said that she didn't know much about Palin.

So not only is America getting to know McCain's VP, but so is John McCain. That's downright scary. A total lack of judgment.

[Sotnos]

Reading up on her, she doesn't seem like a sit-back kind of politician. Though IMO she was picked just for show, that seems at odds with her political career so far (such as it is). Seems like an interesting woman though I don't agree on her social stances. I can't believe she's even considering this when she just gave birth in APRIL, good god.

I stumbled across this really awful looking website called veep peek & had to share this chart they had of McCain's VP front-runners, I lol'ed a few times (esp. at them calling Romney "creepy":

Who Should McCain Pick as His VP???

Here is some of the VP "Cream" that has risen to the top. Along with Pro's and Con's for Each. McCain has a tough Choice to make.
Happy Picking!!


Sarah Palin
Pros: She has a Vagina!, Just like Hillary! She has executive experiance unlike Old Johnny Boy! She seems to be a Conservative.
Cons: She has youngins, and She has limited time in government. There is also some question about a scandal or something involving her bro
inlaw.


Mitt Romney
Pros: He is suppose to know how to run a business or something. Some Conservatives see him as acceptable.
Cons: He has flipped flopped more than Nastia Luiken. He is not very popular in the state he governs. He ran some stinging attack ads on
McCain. He is creepy.


Mike Huckabee
Pros: He is Funny. He is Charming. He has executive experiance and is well liked by the state he governed and in the south. He is liked by
the Clintons. He is a darling in the Conservative movement and evangelicals would put on battle gear for him and mobilize like special forces. He
saved a mans life recently. He can out debate anyone.
Cons: Gays and Mean people don't like him.

[TexasBolt]

Nice to meet you, Sarah. Wanna potentially run the free world?

It's worse than that.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12988.html

John McCain today announced a running mate whom he met only six months ago and whom he spoke with just once on the phone about the position before offering it in person earlier this week.

McCain’s first encounter with Sarah Palin came at a Washington meeting of the National Governors Association in February, according to a campaign-provided reconstruction of how the little-known Alaska governor was thrust into the national spotlight. The two discussed the position by phone on Sunday before McCain invited her and her husband to Arizona to formally make the offer. McCain, joined by his wife, Cindy, did just that yesterday morning at their home near Sedona, Ariz.

By picking somebody he and most Americans barely know — an out-of-the-blue decision that sent shock waves of disbelief through the political world and still has jaws agape — McCain has taken a considerable gamble.

He picked a running mate off of one phone interview? Seriously? This isn't like some sort of $30,000-a-year entry-level job. This is for Vice President and potentially President of the United States.

This story gets better and better the more you find out about it.

[jaydeedub]

*Population of Virginia is 7.7 million. The population of Alaska is 683,478

hhaha! population of Pinellas county: 924,413 (2006)

My wife was a big H. Clinton supporter, and voted for her in the primary for IL. Anyhow she just laughs at this pick by McCain. What a joke. "Palin who? Oh the Alaska governor." and she proceeded to crack up. It's like a bitch slap in the face to Clinton supporters, shoot should be for his own party by picking someone with such little experience. I give his choice TWO :thumb: up!! Go obama!

[aapbolt]

Pete; you forgot she won Miss Congeniality. does this make her the frontrunner for the GOP nomination in 2012? Well it appears that she is a bit of a maverick also, she let the dogs loose on Ted Stevens, which is a good thing, and she carries herself well. So lets see what happens when Biden comes after her. I doubt Biden will look like a sexist bully, he can hammer her with nicety and not hurt himself at the same time. Well at least he did not pick romney...what a blow to Mitt's confidence level. Personally I think some are too quick to label this a Rove choice... I really doubt that, this is McCain's choice. she is a conservative and will draw people because she is a blue collar type of person, but does she have what it takes to run the country...who knows, only time will tell how she will respond to the rigors of the campaign.

[pete]

Will she really draw people?

I was listening to Michael Savage on the drive tonight (for those who don't know, Savage is a right wing radio hatemonger) and I was shocked to hear him basically say the election was over and that by selecting Palin, McCain had crippled his campaign by taking experience off the table. It might be the first, and only time, I'll ever agree with Savage. He said something which I think makes a lot of sense: can you really draw conservatives and women if no one knows, or cares, who the heck you are? She is a nobody in 49 states in the union. McCain's campaign chair, Lindsay Graham, admitted he'd never even met her. Hutchison was caught flat footed admitting she doesn't know much of anything about Palin.

How does a complete unknown generate excitement? I suppose the convention will be an opportunity to introduce her to America, but seriously, the country's reaction this morning, even among Republicans, was "Who?" And that was followed shortly by, "Why?" Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough were supposedly in complete disbelief this morning. I don't think this really fires up anyone because nobody knows who the heck she is. And because of that, she looks even more like a complete and total pander.

[Maverick9911]

The more I read about this woman, the more I see her utterly ridiculous quotes and how the religious right has creamed their pants, I feel very uneasy.

Or perhaps its just the shitty bowl of kettle corn I just had and this is all overblown.

I'm still flabbergasted.

Mr. McCain’s advisers said Friday that Mr. McCain was well aware that Ms. Palin would be criticized for her lack of foreign policy experience, but that he viewed her as exceptionally talented and intelligent and that he felt she would be able to be educated quickly.

“She’s going to learn national security at the foot of the master for the next four years, and most doctors think that he’ll be around at least that long,” said Charlie Black, one of Mr. McCain’s top advisers, making light of concerns about Mr. McCain’s health, which Mr. McCain’s doctors reported as excellent in May.

:duh:

for those who don't know, Savage is a right wing radio hatemonger

Savage probably thinks Sarah can rid her baby of Down Syndrome with a good spanking, the sleaze.

[Maverick9911]

What I see happening (and they are already running wild with the clips of her shooting guns and talking about mooseburgers) is that the mainstream media will completely avoid their basic duties (no shock) and just treat this as a tabloid pick, showcasing her "differences" in lifestyle as quirky kitsch as opposed to her hardline right-wing politics.

I mean, who cares if she isn't ready to lead - she's a hockey mom!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7niokOXyjs

*The war she said she hadn't followed because of her pressing local duties in Alaska.

[aapbolt]

while I do not like the pick of Palin, in particular that she is a creationist--she needs to read history sometime and read about Stalin and Lysenko. choices out of the ordinary can sometimes turn into good choices. for example FDR choosing Truman, and no I am not comparing Palin to Truman. whether the press reacts to this in a critical manner is not that important at this point, she will get her honeymoon from them, what is important is how she answers questions and address the issues. Further what positive programs or ideas she can bring to the table, so while I don't like some of the things I have read so far I am willing to pay attention and see what she has to offer. the big problem for McCain is that the progressives will not respond to her pseudo science and that may cost him the votes he needs in this election. Savage and his ilk should be happy he picked a social conservative, the purists in the party always like to go down in flames.

[Flycoon]

She reminds me of Anita Bryant.

[TexasBolt]

Is this hurricane going to take the offshore drilling topic off the table in Obama's favor? I heard on my local news tonight that 75% of the offshore rigs in the Gulf have been evacuated. (They also said gas could spike to $5 a gallon if there was severe damage but that doesn't sound right to me.) Why would we want to put even more of our oil supply in jeopardy like that?

[the_narrow_way]

The new swings in gas prices are completely unfair. Hurricanes in the past have had some increase on oil prices, but not like these days.

Ahmedinejad has indigestion. Oil prices up $20/barrel. News at 11... :melodramatic::mad:

[pete]

Yeah, but Truman had a national reputation because he headed up the Congressional investigations against war profiteering by big business during WWII. His big claim to fame wasn't that he liked moose hot dogs and a year and a half prior to becoming VP he wasn't mayor of a town with a population of less than 7,000.

Think about that. She's gone from managing a town which isn't even one of the 10 biggest in Alaska where the biggest event was, literally, the opening of a Wal Mart to possibly being one heartbeat away from the presidency in less than 2 years?

And lets lay this out there too: John McCain would be the oldest man ever to take office as president if he were elected, and he's had bouts with skin cancer as recently as a year/year and a half ago. And he doesn't come across to anyone who looks at him as fit-as-a-fiddle, does he? Are you sure you want the ribbon cutter from the Wal-Mart in Wassila, AK being president if something happens to the old man?

[Flycoon]

There is one goof ball (desperate right winger) in the Buc's usenet group comparing her to Margaret Thatcher. Just....wow.

[Donnie D]

McCain curtails the convention for Monday night. Bet that wasn't a tough decision. Both Bush & Cheney speeches are cancelled. He's been trying to figure out how to minimize the 2 of them and the storm did it for him.

[Donnie D]

I guess a certain Florida Governor is in a snit that he wasn't picked to be Vice President. Crist announces that he isn't going to the convention because he is staying home to monitor the storms.

Uh, Charlie, the storm isn't projected to hit Florida and Hannah isn't supposed to be close to here either on Thursday.

I guess he needs time to figure out what to do with Carole Rome now that he doesn't need her any more.

[Hoek]

He could always take her out to the Green Iguana..

o wait.. :spy:

[pete]

BTW, for anyone counting, "ordinary hockey mom" Palin has three houses.

[pete]

The wierd thing is, wasn't Scot Brantley always plugging the Green Iguana back in the Sports Radio 910 days?

[aapbolt]

I wasn't comparing Truman to Palin just the choice of someone out of the blue, so to speak. Truman was also considered a party hack by many and his selection was to get rid of the other VP who was a socialist. anyway, Palin has not impressed me so far, plus she does not balance the ticket geographically and while she may attract female voters she will not bring in any disaffected Hillary supporters because she is a social conservative. If she were a moderate or progressive she could pull in a lot of those women, but not now. As to having 3 houses- oh come on, Al gore has a number of them and a huge mansion that costs him 3,000.00 per month for his electric bill. give me a break. what about the Kennedy's? geez the only time people talk about the wealthy is when they are Republicans, like Dems do not have rich people..or maybe that is Ok because they are Dems. Be fair guys. Actually I did not know igloos counted as homes. I can hardly wait for the feminists to attack Palin on her hairstyle and nails and makeup like they attacted katherine Harris--- attack the messenger not the message, a really stupid red herring that people see through fairly well now- and that applies to both R's and D's.

[aapbolt]

Just to be forthright and honest, Harry Truman is on my personal top 5 list for greatest Presidents. He did what was right and took responsibility for his actions, something sadly missing today.

[Flycoon]

I can hardly wait for the feminists to attack Palin on her hairstyle and nails and makeup like they attacted katherine Harris--- attack the messenger not the message, a really stupid red herring that people see through fairly well now- and that applies to both R's and D's.

Katherine Harris deserved whatever she got, she was a tool of the RNC and agreed to play the role.

All politicians get attacked on their physical characteristics; McCain older than dirt and Obama too skinny.

[Hoek]

I don't think the issue here is multiple homes or how wealthy these politicians are.. Everyone knows (okay, more like they SHOULD know) that literally all of them are power hungry, ambitious, people with significant pocketbooks to back it up. It's when they start spouting BS that they're "down to earth" and oh so familiar with the plight of the middle and lower classes as they jet set back and forth between their playgrounds where it rings a little hollow, especially if they never even had to start there.

As for Katherine Harris, I don't remember her even having much of a message except "I hate gay people and so do you so vote for me! Praise the Lord! America is a Christian Nation!" Screw that noise.. :rolleyes:

[pete]

As to having 3 houses- oh come on, Al gore has a number of them

Al Gore never represented himself as an average, run of the mill, working class NASCAR dad.

[pete]

Kids having kids. :nono:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/01/1318541.aspx

Not that it's any of our business. However, if Obama or Biden had a teenaged daughter with an unplanned pregnancy, I'm sure we'd see the right wing noise machine proclaiming it as the unequicoval, definitive proof of the moral bankruptcy of the Democratic Party and the fault of the parents.

[pete]

This woman never runs out of surprises either...

Apparently she worked for Pat Buchanan's Reform Party campaign in Alaska in 2000. Good luck selling her down in West Palm Beach. In case you didn't know what Buchanan campaigned on in 2000, it included withdrawing from the United Nations and aboloshing the Department of Education and Department of Energy. Sounds mainstream to me. :thumb:

-and-

Apparently, prior to becoming mayor of Wasilla, she was a member of the Alaska Independence Party, and earlier this year, she actually sent a video address to the Alaska Independence Party convention. According to their website, the Alaska Independence Party believes in secession from the United States of America. Period, point blank.

What is it the reactionary conservatives always like to say, "America. Love it or leave it?" Well this woman supports people who want to leave it. So what does that tell us about how she really feels about America?

I hope folks like WaiverWire will think this over. This isn't like a college term paper or a slip at the microphone. This isn't something her pastor said or a flag pin. This is a woman who, even earlier this year, actively supported a political party that seeks to secede from the country!

She's WAY out on the fringe. WAY out of the mainstream. She's got no foreign policy experience and just two years ago she was mayor of a city that wasn't even one of the 10 largest in Alaska. If she makes it into office, she will be a heartbeat away from the presidency and that is dangerous.

[Sotnos]

Kids having kids. :nono:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/01/1318541.aspx

Not that it's any of our business. However, if Obama or Biden had a teenaged daughter with an unplanned pregnancy, I'm sure we'd see the right wing noise machine proclaiming it as the unequicoval, definitive proof of the moral bankruptcy of the Democratic Party and the fault of the parents.
Great comment on that article:
Maybe if the Conservatives were not so against teaching birth control this might not have happened to Bristol Palin.
Yep

Apparently, prior to becoming mayor of Wasilla, she was a member of the Alaska Independence Party, and earlier this year, she actually sent a video address to the Alaska Independence Party convention. According to their website, the Alaska Independence Party believes in secession from the United States of America. Period, point blank.
Did they not do a background check on this woman? I take that back, I was just reading that she was "vetted" by the likes of James Dobson last week. Yipee :rolleyes:

[dmitry]

This woman never runs out of surprises either...

Apparently she worked for Pat Buchanan's Reform Party campaign in Alaska in 2000. Good luck selling her down in West Palm Beach. In case you didn't know what Buchanan campaigned on in 2000, it included withdrawing from the United Nations and aboloshing the Department of Education and Department of Energy. Sounds mainstream to me. :thumb:

-and-

Apparently, prior to becoming mayor of Wasilla, she was a member of the Alaska Independence Party, and earlier this year, she actually sent a video address to the Alaska Independence Party convention. According to their website, the Alaska Independence Party believes in secession from the United States of America. Period, point blank.

What is it the reactionary conservatives always like to say, "America. Love it or leave it?" Well this woman supports people who want to leave it. So what does that tell us about how she really feels about America?

I hope folks like WaiverWire will think this over. This isn't like a college term paper or a slip at the microphone. This isn't something her pastor said or a flag pin. This is a woman who, even earlier this year, actively supported a political party that seeks to secede from the country!

She's WAY out on the fringe. WAY out of the mainstream. She's got no foreign policy experience and just two years ago she was mayor of a city that wasn't even one of the 10 largest in Alaska. If she makes it into office, she will be a heartbeat away from the presidency and that is dangerous.

Abolition of federal departments and the right to secede both sound like good ideas to me. But you're right, those aren't exactly mainstream ideas in our ultranationalist, statist country. Palin's links to Buchanan look pretty tenuous anyway.

[aapbolt]

Fly: I was talking about the 2000 election where Harris was pilloried for her make-up etc, and not about what she was saying. come on, attack people on the issues and leave the cat fight stuff where it belongs. And Al Gore has consistently tried to link himself to the common person, go back and look at his campaign, even if he did come off as a real elitist.

Palin's ties to the fringe really bother me, and McCain not checking up on those bothers me even more. the problem with the Buchanonites is that they rarely study history or read the Constitution, that of course implies they can read. The fringe crap makes her unelectable, the moderates and progressives will never support her and she has just torpedoed what was left of McCain's campaign. If McCain did not know that about her it speaks volumes about his inability to research, have people research and make a sound decision.

I did not know that about Bristol Palin, poor girl, to have the whole world know...didn't her mother care enough to tell the McCain people about that?
whether you have sex education in school or not, it is up to the parents to educate their children on these matters. My wife and I have had numerous talks with our kids and continue to do so because they need to be prepared for the real world. Wow, how sad, yet it mirrors what is happening in society, more single moms and no dad to help. It really takes two to raise a child and I have great respect and admiration for those who are single parents and do a great job with their kids. it is the hardest job you were never trained to perform.

[pete]

I think McCain might have been set up. This is tinfoil conspiracy stuff, but...

The rumor on the internet is that the Commitee for National Policy chose Palin and asked McCain to make her their VP. The CNP is a very exclusive group of conservatives founded by social conservatives like Paul Weyrich who coined the phrase "Christian Coalition" and founded the Heritage Foundation. Supposedly, as the rumor goes, the CNP told McCain it background checks all its members very closely and that Palin was clean. McCain took the CNP's word as a vouch that she was ok.

That may have been naive on McCain's part. The CNP's candidate of choice in the primaries was Mitt Romney, and they are dedicated to a much more fundamentalist and corporatist platform than McCain is (McCain represents the neoconservative bomb-everything-that-moves-and-ask-questions-later wing of the party, not the CNP wing). Many evangelicals leaders have been telling their flocks that an Obama presidency is the nation's penance for the past eight years, and that they are really looking forward to 2012 when, right now, their favorite is Mike Huckabee (I, personally, believe Georgia governor Sonny Purdue will be the 2012 nominee, who also should be popular amongst evangelicals).

Like I said, listening to Savage (who is a racist, fear mongering, nut job, granted) he said he thought either McCain or someone in McCain's campaign was deliberately throwing the election by picking Palin. At the time I laughed it off. True, it was a stupid selection, but I doubted that someone in his campaign actually tried to sabotage him.

But now? In three days of googling people of the internet have uncovered that she's under investigation for abuse of power (and the results of the investigation will come out just before the election), has an unwed pregnant teenaged daughter, worked for Pat Buchanan's 2000 campaign which believed in shutting down the Departments of Education and Energy, and used to be the member of a party which believes that Alaska should secede from the United States. That's ON TOP of the fact she's been governor of a state with a population less than Pinellas County for less than two years and prior to that she was mayor of a town that wasn't even one of the ten biggest in Alaska and has no foreign policy experience and thus is completely unqualified.

So, is McCain really that stupid, or was he set up? And what does that say about treachery in the Republican Party?

BREAKING NEWS: Now MSNBC just said that Palin is lawyering up for the abuse of power investigation. Seriously, either McCain lost his mind when he made this pick, or he was set up.

[pete]

Wow, how sad, yet it mirrors what is happening in society, more single moms and no dad to help.

Two words: shotgun wedding. Bristol won't be unwed very long, I promise you that. They've already said as much in their campaign press release.

[Donnie D]

Me thinks she could be the Thomas Eagleton of the 2008 election.

And we all know how well that turned out for George McGovern when he had to admit that he made a bad first choice.

[aapbolt]

Yeah I caught the blurb, how sad. she is going to marry the 18yr. old father. It was nice to see Barack take the high road on this. You are right Donnie, she is the Tom Eagleton of the right. Pete I hope McCain was not set up, but if the bloggers are right and she was recommended without a lot of vetting, then he may well have been set up. they are saying that McCain may have known of this, but did not know of the political problems that she brought to the table.

For me, personally, this is just inexcusable. My grandfather was Chr. of the Henry Co. Illinois Republican party and worked hard to get rid of the fringe guys and the KKK element and foster the growth of the moderate progressive wing of the Republican party. To nominate someone who advocated or supported secession from the Union harkens back to the days before the Civil War and is as unacceptable now as it should have been then when most Democrats in the south wanted that. I had hopes that McCain might help restore the moderate progressives and regain the soul of the party and restore true republicanism to the party. Instead we get this. doing to the party what happened to the Dems. when McGovern ran for office.

[pete]

I don't think he can get rid of her though. He's stuck with her.

Obama's out to a 48-40 lead in the CBS/NY Times poll and a 50-43 lead in the USA Today/Gallup poll. That's with both the Democratic convention and the Palin announcement included but before, obviously, a lot of the negative stuff about Palin came out.

I don't know what McCain is going to do now. I've never seen this kind of convergence of bad luck, bad timing, and bad decision making strike a presidential campaign all at once. I almost feel sorry for the guy. Almost. There could actually be a negative bounce for McCain coming out of the week, although I do expect Americans to give him some kind of credit out of sympathy for the fact his convention got upstaged by two hurricanes.

He's going to need to have the best debates of his life just to get himself back in it. I'm talking, better than Kerry spanking Bush in the first debate in 2004 good.

[pete]

It was nice to see Barack take the high road on this.

I wouldn't give him too much credit. That's the easy play for his campaign to make. They know the media isn't going to let this go. A story that involves teenagers having sex in it? A cover up that involves an unplanned pregnancy? Ratings gold. Ask Jerry Springer. And, even by coming out and saying the media shouldn't cover it, he's fanning the flames just by bringing it up.

[Maverick9911]

However, if Obama or Biden had a teenaged daughter with an unplanned pregnancy, I'm sure we'd see the right wing noise machine proclaiming it as the unequicoval, definitive proof of the moral bankruptcy of the Democratic Party and the fault of the parents.

If either Malia or Sasha Obama were 17 and pregnant, the right would be furiously demanding his withdrawal from the race and Fixed News would have a field day with all kinds of racist commentary.

Apparently, prior to becoming mayor of Wasilla, she was a member of the Alaska Independence Party, and earlier this year, she actually sent a video address to the Alaska Independence Party convention. According to their website, the Alaska Independence Party believes in secession from the United States of America. Period, point blank.

You gotta be shitting me. I don't know what boggles my mind more, that this woman was seriously considered (albeit briefly and irresponsibly) for the ticket or that a good number of people will actually feel good about voting for it.

Random: I think the elitist attacks are warranted because McCain's people have tried to bury Obama simply because he likes organic tea. That alone had them in conniptions.

So, is McCain really that stupid, or was he set up? And what does that say about treachery in the Republican Party?

I was hearing the conspiracies also. You have A.) throwing the election to regroup for 2012, which was essentially the one positive lobbied about by the Dems in 2004 (and it was called sour grapes), B.) McCain's personal revenge for the GOP screwing him in 2000 and failing to come to his aid this year and then C.) the theory as described by Pete. It's such a goddamn soap opera and while there's an element of gallows humor in it all, it really scares the hell out you too.

Makes me just want to avoid the news until Nov. 4th. :noidea:

[Donnie D]

He can't get rid of her. Either she has to realize that this is becoming a disaster or the party has to push her out.

Something bigger than what has come forward so far has to surface, but this has now become a huge problem for McCain.:happydance::happydance:

[Donnie D]

Obama reacted correctly saying that families are off limits.

You are correct Pete, if this had been Obama or Biden it would be proof of the lack of morals of the liberals. Now it is going to be seen by the right as a badge of courage - she didn't abort the baby and she is getting married to the father. A real feel good story right out of the 50s when getting married to the girl was the proper thing to do.

I feel bad for the girl. Instead of it being an Alaska story, it has now become a national one.

[Maverick9911]

I can see her using this thing about her daughter as some "noble" means of backing out. Thing is, if you wouldn't back out for your own special needs baby born this May, why back out for two months now?

And unless they do some serious ass kissing, Romney and Pawlenty won't dare return their calls.

[TexasBolt]

What a disaster!!!!! :hysterical:

The right wing was all happy about how they stole Obama's thunder and got all this attention over the weekend. I hope they're happy about the attention they're getting now. This convention is going to be fantastic. Especially the part where Palin has to get up and give a speech.

Does anyone else think this might turn into a multi-level disaster for the GOP? Imagine what this kind of meltdown might do further down everyone's ballots.

[Maverick9911]

Imagine what this kind of meltdown might do further down everyone's ballots.

I think they are screwed regardless. I know they've been dropping some special elections so far this year and from all I have read, the GOP/RNC has basically told everyone downticket to fend for themselves. Meanwhile you have Howard Dean's program reaching out to even the smallest races and providing them with all kinds of resources.

Palin even came out and strongly endorsed Obama's energy policy before it was immediately removed from her website. Between this and the Crist "nuptials" its one big sideshow.

[RSchmitz]

I wouldn't give him too much credit. That's the easy play for his campaign to make. They know the media isn't going to let this go. A story that involves teenagers having sex in it? A cover up that involves an unplanned pregnancy? Ratings gold. Ask Jerry Springer. And, even by coming out and saying the media shouldn't cover it, he's fanning the flames just by bringing it up.

I disagree. He didn't just say that the media shouldn't cover it and leave it at that. He redirected it towards himself by saying that he was born to an 18 year old single parent, connecting himself and his mother to Bristol Palin and her unborn child; effectively using his own past as a shield.

Thats class right there. Yes, that doesn't mean a lick of difference to some Republicans who see the entire incident as an unforgivable act, but liberals cannot effectively attack her without attacking barrack, and that is all that you can ask of him.

[Donnie D]

Doesn't matter what Obama says, this is going to take a life of its own (no pun intended.) This morning the Today show had an "expert" discussing teen pregnancies. Someone media is going to want to break the story on the father. When the child has the child, it's going to start again. And if she is 7 months along and there are 2 months to the election - well that could mean that Sarah either misses the birth or she is campaigning from a hospital.

You are going to have the right wing claiming that she is a saint for keeping the baby. You are going to have the left wing claiming that this is what happens when you don't teach sex ed in the schools. Others are going to say that she put her political ambition above her family. That she should have protected her child from the national publicity - others are going to say that she is demonstrating courage by standing up for her principles.

At least this should put the eliminate the ugly internet rumors about her last child.

[the_narrow_way]

Ah, 'Family Values' in action. Way to go Palin family. :rolleyes:

Oh, and Sarah, have you figured out what being the VP is all about yet?

[Flycoon]

Says poor parenting to me. Had my daughter been knocked up at 16 I would have felt this was my failure.

[Donnie D]

I don't feel that it's any reflection on the parents how a kid turns out. This bit of the parents being responsible is a recent situation. I hate smoking. Never did it, never allowed it in my home. 3 of my 4 kids smoked. I may feel like a failure, but I don't think I did anything that led them to making the choice they did.

I guess I look at this the way I do drunk drivers that hit someone. For whatever reason, I was fortunate. I'm not about to throw stones at a young girl that got "caught" doing the same thing most of us were either doing or trying to do.

[Flycoon]

I don't feel that it's any reflection on the parents how a kid turns out. This bit of the parents being responsible is a recent situation. I hate smoking. Never did it, never allowed it in my home. 3 of my 4 kids smoked. I may feel like a failure, but I don't think I did anything that led them to making the choice they did.

I guess I look at this the way I do drunk drivers that hit someone. For whatever reason, I was fortunate. I'm not about to throw stones at a young girl that got "caught" doing the same thing most of us were either doing or trying to do.

Not blaming the young lady. Her parents are "just say no" proponents and I imagine sheltered her from any education on birth control or sex education.

[the_narrow_way]

The issue is that Ms. Family Values should be knee-deep in keeping her family in good shape, especially her pregnant, under-age, un-wed daughter and ever more so her precious infant with Down's Syndrome, and not trying to learn how to be a VP, or the heavens forbid, President. :duh:

[pete]

The issue isn't Sarah Palin. It's not. The issue is John McCain and his judgement during pressure situations. The choice of a Vice Presidential running mate is the first executive decision any President ever makes. John McCain did not check this woman's background or credentials. This is a man who is trying to re-brand his campaign as "Country First", but what's clear is that he didn't even interview this woman who could be one heartbeat away from being the leader of the free world.

"Country First?" No. It was Politics First. It was a rash, knee jerk reaction to Obama's convention speech. It was trying to do something splashy to steal headlines without even once thinking about the long-term consequences of the decision were. It was a naked, cynical, gimmick choice to try to appeal to women voters, rather than to pick someone qualified to be the President of the US should anything happen to him. And the most damning thing about it, and the part that I think should make even Republicans question this man's judgement: he didn't even pick the most qualified woman candidate the GOP has.

It's got nothing to do with Bristol Palin or family values or any of the individual breadcrumbs that form a trail of obvious, fatal flaws with this selection. It's the fact that McCain did not even bother to make even the most cursory of steps to uncover the gigantic red flags in this woman's background. It's the fact he panicked under pressure to such an incredible degree that he not only managed to commit political malpractice, but that he put the country in potential danger should circumstances ever put this woman in power. And, if he can't handle the late August pressure of a presidential campaign, do you really want him handling the pressure of making the decision whether or not to bomb Iran, or send special forces into Pakistan?

[Donnie D]

You have described the problem correctly Pete.

Narrow Way and others - just curious - would you feel the same way if this were a man? I'm having a hard time to believe that a man would be held responsible for a daugher's sex life and be told that they couldn't be President because they have a special needs child.

I didn't hear John Edwards being told to drop out because he had a wife with cancer.

This is a question of McCain's judgement and should be confined to that issue.

[the_narrow_way]

Whether or not it would be the same if it were the male Palin parent running for VP, that would depend on whether or not he is the primary caregiver. If he is, then I'd feel the same way. Until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume mom's taking care of the kids, overall. If he's playing mom, then that takes the heat off of her to some extent.

And you're right, the biggest issue is that McCain went out and picked someone he knew little about, and who was clearly not the best qualified person to begin with.

[Maverick9911]

It's got nothing to do with Bristol Palin or family values or any of the individual breadcrumbs that form a trail of obvious, fatal flaws with this selection. It's the fact that McCain did not even bother to make even the most cursory of steps to uncover the gigantic red flags in this woman's background. It's the fact he panicked under pressure to such an incredible degree that he not only managed to commit political malpractice, but that he put the country in potential danger should circumstances ever put this woman in power. And, if he can't handle the late August pressure of a presidential campaign, do you really want him handling the pressure of making the decision whether or not to bomb Iran, or send special forces into Pakistan?

Very true. Honestly I could care less about Bristol Palin being pregnant. That may speak to the times we live in but I really don't care. So many people are falling for the tabloid line and they are ignoring the REAL concerns with this woman/selection: the abuse of power charges, the secessionist ties, her complete lack of preparation, qualification and dare I say interest in this job. Those factors along with the aforementioned McCain blunders are what scare me shitless. When People Magazine asks if she feels ready to be president and her answer is "Yup, yup, totally"...I mean, wtf.

One thing I did read in a blog was that Sarah Palin belongs to a dominionist church that preaches submission to husbands in all aspects of life, meaning he would be the sole earner and leader of the family while the wife would be mandated to serve as nothing more than a stay at home mom and servant. This could be BS but someone went into extreme detail about the specific church she belongs to...wish I had saved the blog (it was somewhere on Daily Kos).

[Avery86]

So I just read that interview in People Magazine .. and while I understand it's basically a tabloid .. just, wow.

Given her young age and relatively short resume, why is she any more ready to be president than Sen. Barack Obama?
JOHN: I don't think it's a short resume. She first ran for office back in 1992. I don't know what Senator Obama was doing then, but the first time she ran was 1992. That's 16 years. I think that's a pretty, pretty event-filled and record-filled resume.
SARAH: And I haven't had too many years other than that to fill up yet.
JOHN: There you go.

Yeah, ran for office in 1992 of a town that's about five times smaller than the amount of students attending the University of Central Florida. But length is more important than what she's doing right?

She's taken on special interests since she ran for the PTA and the city council and mayor. The courage, I guess, is what most impressed me.

The courage to run for the PTA? Give me a couple years and I'll be ready for the presidency. :rolleyes:

[Maverick9911]

The "special interests" claim was some really tiny thing left behind by the outgoing governor...God I wish I remember what it was but it was another one of those "you gotta be kidding me" claims. The budget she signed into law had more spending than ANY budget in Alaska's history, leaving that small town in $20 million worth of debt.

The same people buying this BS are the ones who laugh at Obama for being a community organizer and teaching constitutional law.

At this point im on the fence about whether I still want her on the ticket or not. I can see the media giving her a free pass and feeling sorry for her if she makes it. Then again, is there even enough time for McCain to get a replacement if she drops out for "personal reasons"? If they have any backbone, Romney and Pawlenty will still be pissed off and ignore the calls. Will it even matter at this point??

[Maverick9911]

This just keeps getting nuttier and nuttier. Introducing her at the Nutter Center was a stroke of genius.

In 1997 she was almost recalled as mayor of Wasilla for pretty much the same thing she's being accused of now.

Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin fired the city's police chief and the library director without warning Thursday, accusing them of not fully supporting her efforts to govern. Irl Stambaugh and Mary Ellen Emmons said letters signed by Palin were dropped on their desks Thursday afternoon telling them their jobs were over as of Feb. 13 and that they no longer needed to report to work.

http://hatthief.blogspot.com/2008/08/vetting-sarah-palin-irl-stambaugh-walt.html

And since the mainstream media is SO interested in fair play regarding pastors, why not add another to the fire?

A review of recorded sermons by Ed Kalnins, the senior pastor of Wasilla Assembly of God since 1999, offers a provocative and, for some, eyebrow-raising sketch of Palin's longtime spiritual home.

The church runs a number of ministries providing help to poor neighborhoods, care for children in need, and general community services. But Pastor Kalnins has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war mode."

It is impossible to determine how much Wasilla Assembly of God has shaped Palin's thinking. She was baptized there at the age of 12 and attended the church for most of her adult life. When Palin was inaugurated as governor, the founding pastor of the church delivered the invocation. In 2002, Palin moved her family to a nondenominational church, but she continues to worship at a related Assembly of God church in Juneau.

Moreover, she "has maintained a friendship with Wasilla Assembly of God and has attended various conferences and special meetings here," Kalnins' office said in a statement. "As for her personal beliefs," the statement added, "Governor Palin is well able to speak for herself on those issues."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

And after all this, the McCain camp is crying, you guessed it, sexism.

[Flycoon]

And after all this, the McCain camp is crying, you guessed it, sexism.

Typical. I received and email from my brother in law lauding the accomplishments of Cindy McCain. Didn't grumpy old John call her that c word that rhymes with punt?

My brother in law is a moron. Both he and his wife receive SSI; must be because they are too stupid to realize the GOP would pull that safety net form under his feet if possible.

[the_narrow_way]

And she's also knee-deep in the Alaska Independance Party, who's main mission is to seceed from the US.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-aip3-2008sep03,0,6399468.story

What a colossal screw-up on McCain's part. Maybe he's ready to trade Cindy in for a new model?

On that note, read this article from England.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html

[pete]

Oh boy, and now the other shoe drops. Can't say I'm surprised seeing as she supported Pat Buchanan.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

McCain is going to lose Florida.

[Maverick9911]

A comment posted on MSNBC by a Wasilla resident, being forwarded around in chain mails all week. Sorry its so long.

ABOUT SARAH PALIN

I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the residents of the city.

She is enormously popular; in every way she's like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe". It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months. She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.

Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin's kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever been anything like that of native Alaskans.

Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters. She's smart. Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents. During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had given rise to a recall campaign.

Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative". During her 6 years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.

The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece of property that the City didn't even have clear title to, that was still in litigation 7 yrs later--to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing.

While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once. These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.

As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state. In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today's surplus, borrow for needs.

She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

Sarah complained about the "old boy's club" when she first ran for Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal--loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the State's top cop (see below).

As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla's Police Chief because he "intimidated" her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to
replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded
for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.

She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn't like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.

When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got
the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys' club" when she dramatically quit, exposing this man's ethics violations (for which he was fined).

As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.

As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects--which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance--but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "anti-pork".

She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.
As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package
of legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march
to the beat of her drum.

Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiative that would have either a) protected salmon streams from pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State's lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior's decision to list polar bears as threatened species.

McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being President. There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she. However, there's a lot of people who have underestimated her and are
regretting it.

You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000", up to 9,000. The day Palin's selection was announced a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-90's.

[Sotnos]

I was going to post that yesterday (it was on a library listserv) but I couldn't figure out if it was legit or where it was from originally.

Edit: I should clarify that there's no issue with posting it, just pointing out that people should take that into consideration.

[Donnie D]

Biden is going to be in Sarasota this afternoon. Tickets were gone in 2 hours and there was a waiting list of another 400 gone by a little after noon.

The advance team selected a small location because they didn't know how he would draw. They were trying to find a larger spot when little old Republican Sarasota turned out beyond their expectations.

No - I didn't get there early enought to get tickets.

[the_narrow_way]

I was pondeing trying to get tickets, but figured it would be difficult, on top of having to work today.

Good to see the turnout. Hopefully there's some good video of the event.

[pete]

Biden is going to be in Sarasota this afternoon.

Hide the women, children, and pets.

[jaydeedub]

A comment posted on MSNBC by a Wasilla resident, being forwarded around in chain mails all week. Sorry its so long.

Good, long read. Thanks Maverick. I'll have to email that to the Repub from Texas at my work tomorrow. We were in an argument over the "experience" levels of Palin and Obama.

Sounds like she might have more than just one abuse of power problems in the past. Should be interesting to hear what she says tonight at the GOP convention.

[Maverick9911]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq4sOM4tpno

Oh those crazy live mics :)

[jaydeedub]

Oh those crazy live mics :)

:pound:

"pardon my language, it's bullshit!"

[Donnie D]

Great speech by Rudy. I thought a rather weak one from Sarah.

Of course the GOP's mantra. Scare, scare, scare.

Terrorists!! Taxes!! Bigger Govt.!!

How anyone can buy this crap is beyond me.

But when it's all you have to sell and people keep buying it

[TexasBolt]

What a shock, no discussion of issues or any sort of economic plan, other than to try and accuse Obama of not having one, which is stupid.

[Maverick9911]

What a shock, no discussion of issues

Rick Davis, campaign manager for John McCain's presidential bid, insisted that the presidential race will be decided more over personalities than issues during an interview with Post editors this morning.

"This election is not about issues," said Davis. "This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates."

I caught all of ten seconds...a chant for drilling, continued mockery of Obama's community organizing and surprise surprise, a 9-11 reference. She used her disabled kid as a damn campaign prop and it sickens me.

Tomorrow night at 8, Obama goes on O'Reilly. Very interesting.

Link to a short recap of Biden's visit to Ft. Myers today.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/obamaroadblog/gG5vT7

[pete]

She was good. She had a career in TV before politics and it showed. That said, it felt inauthentic to me.

Split screen her speech and Biden's. Which one is real? Which one is acting? And you all know I'm not terribly fond of Joe Biden, but he doesn't look like he just came out of Hollywood casting like Sarah Palin and when he spoke about growing up in Scranton, PA and the story about his mom, it didn't sound fake. She sounded very fake to me. Mitt Romney fake.

I think she slowed the bleeding. They might pick up a couple of points in the tracking polls. However, she didn't stop the bleeding. She lied about not supporting the Bridge to Nowhere and about taxes. There was NOTHING in that speech that really spoke to Hillary voters, in my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't hear anything that would really make Hillary voters gravitate to her, and that was the whole reason to put her on the ticket. And, I think by going so negative and delivering the speech with so much sarcasm and nastiness, she planted the seeds for some character based attacks down the road.

Something wierd is going to happen now. I think her speech overshadows McCain's.

[Maverick9911]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYiw_y2qDI

She has military experience.

Um.

Ok, Tucker.

D'oh, not so fast!

"Palin's 'Commander In Chief' Position Stripped By Bush"

"U.S. governors were stripped of crucial discretion over their National Guard units at home for a good part of Palin's first term....A clause from National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 amended the Insurrection Act, handing President George W. Bush expanded power to declare martial law and take over Guard troops without a governor's assent. Passed by the Congress and signed by the president more than a month before Palin took office in December 2006"

[timothy]

She used her disabled kid as a damn campaign prop and it sickens me.

Spoken like someone who doesn't have a special needs child.

[Maverick9911]

I don't - does that mean I can't find it tasteless that so many GOP "strategists" are foaming at the mouth and calling her baby a great draw for undecided moms?

I admire her for making the choice (the choice she wants to deny others) to keep the baby but to use that, amongst other faulty arguments, to try and make the case she's prepared to be president is crap.

[timothy]

I don't - does that mean I can't find it tasteless that so many GOP "strategists" are foaming at the mouth and calling her baby a great draw for undecided moms?

I admire her for making the choice (the choice she wants to deny others) to keep the baby but to use that, amongst other faulty arguments, to try and make the case she's prepared to be president is crap.

She simply said that if she were elected, parents of disabled children would have a friend and advocate in the White House. I fail to see why you consider that tasteless.

In fact, Obama spent a great deal of time identifying his experience growing up in a single parent household and the common struggles he knows they have. That's not tasteless. That's identifying with people with real problems on a personal basis.

You may not like Palin, and you might have legit issues to take her to task on, but just because you can't identify with her on some points doesn't illegitimize or stigmatize them. You're off base on this one, Mav.

[Maverick9911]

She simply said that if she were elected, parents of disabled children would have a friend and advocate in the White House. I fail to see why you consider that tasteless.

I don't consider it tasteless and I find nothing wrong with that statement whatsoever.

What I do find tasteless is turning the AM dial trying to find the Rays game and stumbling upon two blowhards saying "and she has a Downs baby, that'll really tug at the undecided heartstrings". What I do find upsetting is that so many people vouching for her like to mention that she has a special needs baby as a way of proving her readiness to be the leader of the free world. What I do find confusing is that she is refusing to be interviewed by any credible media outlet and yet here she is on the cover of supermarket weeklies with the baby, publicizing her difficult decision (which, as said earlier, is the choice she is willing to deny others).

She can be a friend, advocate or whatever she likes, but if she or her associates speak of the baby as nothing more than a talking point to lure in voters unwilling or unable to fully examine her record, that's tasteless.

[Donnie D]

Don't agree at all. It is what it is. She surely didn't choose to be in this position to enhance her political future. And maybe, it will enlighten her on the fact that not everyone has the ability to lift themselves by the Republican bootstraps and become rich. There are individuals in this society that need the govts. assistance.

What she did Pete to appeal to the Hillary crowd is refrain from saying anything about how how the govt. should stay of of the health care business, overturn Roe v Wade, stay out of the market place when it comes to equal wages, or any other woman's issue. She was just silent on every issue that would paint her as a conservative. She just played up the fact that she was a mom and made it through the system.

[pete]

I thought her holding her child was the one moment of authenticity in a night otherwise bereft of reality.

I'm still amazed people like Chris Matthews fell for the BS that she is somehow the epitome of working class, small town America. That she somehow plays better in Scranton than Joe Biden? Really?

I grew up in a blue collar working class union household. Joe Biden, for all his flaws, reminds me of my dad. The way he talks. The facial gestures he has when he's tearing someone a new cornshoot. The way he smiles after tearing someone a new cornshoot. Even the way he combs his air. I'm telling you, Biden is authentic. If he had a New York accent and put on 20 pounds he'd BE my dad.

Sarah Palin doesn't remind me of my mother in any way, shape, or form. How could she? Blue collar working class Americans don't have three houses. Blue collar working class Americans don't look like they just stepped out of Hollywood central casting. Blue collar working class Americans don't speak with the well practiced but utterly hollow inflections of a well practiced TV personality.

She's. A. Phony.

They're talking about running her in 2012. Please do, GOP. I'd much rather face a phony with no credentials than someone like Sonny Purdue who could actually win.

[the_narrow_way]

Spoken like someone who doesn't have a special needs child.
Excuse me, what? Are you saying that parading that poor child around for political gain is the right and proper thing to do? :mad:

Side note: If Palin was going to have her child regardless of how it was going to develop, then why did she have the genetic test done to see if the child would be 'normal' or not? :noidea:

[the_narrow_way]

What I do find confusing is that she is refusing to be interviewed by any credible media outlet and yet here she is on the cover of supermarket weeklies with the baby, publicizing her difficult decision (which, as said earlier, is the choice she is willing to deny others). She can be a friend, advocate or whatever she likes, but if she or her associates speak of the baby as nothing more than a talking point to lure in voters unwilling or unable to fully examine her record, that's tasteless.
Amen.

What a ridiculous double-standard. One of their talking heads was on MSNBC this morning, completely insulting the writer from Time magazine, and saying that Palin didn't have to talk to them. What? Huh? The only words we get from her are pre-written, rehearsed ones? That only proves how much of tool Palin is, cleary there to pose as another distraction and smoke-screen for the complete lack of substance their ticket is based on.

[the_narrow_way]

I grew up in a blue collar working class union household. Joe Biden, for all his flaws, reminds me of my dad. Sarah Palin doesn't remind me of my mother in any way, shape, or form. How could she?She's. A. Phony.
Correct. I can identify with Biden, but not Palin.

My parents always had to try to scrape together enough money to keep things going. In fact, I'm having to help support them now. Growing up, my dad had to work multiple jobs on top of running a business of our own and my mom as well. They don't have time for hunting trips, they don't own multiple houses, my dad's not a Union guy who has a job with a big oil company.

[pete]

Yeah, Sarah Palin represents upper-class suburban yuppie America, right down to the pretentious names she has given her children. She plays well in Carrollwood, not Scranton, in my opinion.

I think talking heads like Chris Matthews seriously don't get class in America. Maybe they've been in the Washington bubble so long they don't realize that there's a HUGE difference between upper-class suburban yuppie America and working class blue collar America.

[Maverick9911]

Maybe they've been in the Washington bubble so long they don't realize that there's a HUGE difference between upper-class suburban yuppie America and working class blue collar America.

What I love is how Obama is suddenly the epitome of an east coast liberal since he went to Harvard, yet that and Yale were symbols of excellence when it came to W.

They need to hit back HARD at the repeated mockery of community organizing. Roland Martin on CNN was extremely close to dropping some F-bombs on live TV since his parents are both COs in Texas.

[TexasBolt]

there's a HUGE difference between upper-class suburban yuppie America and working class blue collar America.

Exactly. Palin reminds me of the sorority girls who are hardcore conservative, but drive a Volkswagen because they want to think they're bohemian and cool.

[Avery86]

The only words we get from her are pre-written, rehearsed ones?

Well, the one interview I've seen with her so far pretty much paints her as completely unprepared and not serious about being in the position she's in. I mean, it was an off the cuff interview before a celebratory event, but she should still hold herself to a level of professionalism other than saying, "Absolutely. Yup, yup. Especially with a good team around us." in response to a question about whether or not she's ready for her position.

As Pete said, she's a fake. For as much as people call Democrats hypocrites, she takes the cake.

[pete]

"Community organizer" is being used as a code word. Go back and look at the speeches last night. They're mocking it because it's "urban" at a convention where the only person of color I saw last night was sitting on MSNBC's panel. It's subtle, but it's racism none-the-less, in my opinion.

[Donnie D]

WW - You are way off base on this one. She did what every politician does, she went on stage with her family. And that child is part of her family. She loves and is proud of that child just as any parent would be. What do you expect her to do hide, the "damaged" child somewhere and only go on stage with he "normal" ones?

If I am reading you wrong, I'll appologize.

[the_narrow_way]

right down to the pretentious names she has given her children
Track (self-explanatory)
Bristol (ESPN's headquarters)
Piper (WB-network Charmed witch)
Willow (WB-network Buffy the Vampire Slayer witch)
Trig (short for Trigger perhaps?)

Ugh.

[Avery86]

Supposedly Trig is a Norse name.

I'd really rather this election leave all the families out of this, but of course that will never happen.

[Flycoon]

She simply said that if she were elected, parents of disabled children would have a friend and advocate in the White House. I fail to see why you consider that tasteless.

Being a friend and advocate might mean something if it was backed up by support of expanding health care, day care, and expanding special education for all kids as well as special needs kids. Not in the cards from this platform.

But she will advocate ribbon magnets for cars that say "support special needs kids". Much like McCain supports the troops and veterans.

[timothy]

wow... brutal board...

:carryon:

[WaiverWire]

WW - You are way off base on this one. She did what every politician does, she went on stage with her family. And that child is part of her family. She loves and is proud of that child just as any parent would be. What do you expect her to do hide, the "damaged" child somewhere and only go on stage with he "normal" ones?

If I am reading you wrong, I'll appologize.

I just got back from Cleveland and have not posted anything about her....atleast that I remember.....did I have one to many?????

[Maverick9911]

Georgia Republican Rep. Lynn Westmoreland used the racially-tinged term "uppity" to describe Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama Thursday.

Westmoreland was discussing vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's speech with reporters outside the House chamber and was asked to compare her with Michelle Obama.

"Just from what little I’ve seen of her and Mr. Obama, Sen. Obama, they're a member of an elitist-class individual that thinks that they're uppity," Westmoreland said.

Asked to clarify that he used the word “uppity,” Westmoreland said, “Uppity, yeah.”


Class act.

[the_narrow_way]

I just got back from Cleveland and have not posted anything about her....atleast that I remember.....did I have one to many?????
Maybe he was referencing my post? /shrug

[pete]

wow... brutal board...

Hey, all I'm saying is those kids don't have normal working class names like Paul, Bobby, Suzy, or Jane. I doubt there's a lot of guys named Trig running around the mean streets of Scranton, and if there are, they probably got their butts kicked a few times in grade school for it.

[Maverick9911]

Warning: language :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2NEzmzfXho

How I miss him.

[jaydeedub]

Being a friend and advocate might mean something if it was backed up by support of expanding health care, day care, and expanding special education for all kids as well as special needs kids. Not in the cards from this platform.

But she will advocate ribbon magnets for cars that say "support special needs kids". Much like McCain supports the troops and veterans.

That's a good point. I was thinking about that last night during her speech. A close friend of mine has a special needs child, and she's had trouble ever since birth. They've had to sell their house, furniture and other things in order to pay for her care. I doubt Sarah Palin has the same kind of struggles that my friend will ever face. Nothing near it. She can afford the best health care, day care and and any other care (like private special education) for her child. My friend obvioulsy can't. There does need be more done. Does she really relate to the normal people like my friend? Most likely not.

Edit: Here's a good AP article of Palin's speech and the "facts" behind them...from news.yahoo.com (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check)

[jaydeedub]

tbDHNsaL1g4

My wife had to show me this one...:D hehee

[astro]

anybody see the 9/11 "tribute" at the RNC? Also, did anyone see Keith Olbermann's response to it? The video's purpose, imo, was to incite hate and fear. No surprise there.

I was appalled by the video and Keith had the guts to voice it on tv. I don't have the video for it. I will keep checking youtube to see if anyone posts it.

[jaydeedub]

anybody see the 9/11 "tribute" at the RNC? Also, did anyone see Keith Olbermann's response to it? The video's purpose, imo, was to incite hate and fear. No surprise there.

I was appalled by the video and Keith had the guts to voice it on tv. I don't have the video for it. I will keep checking youtube to see if anyone posts it.

It's just like how they (Repubs) keep saying all Obama's plan is to lose in Iraq. As a military guy it annoys the hell out of me because I find it damn hard to believe anyone running for President would actually want/plan to "lose" in Iraq.

[Sotnos]

Did one true word come out of Lindsey Graham's mouth during his speech? That whole bit was disgusting, what in hell constitutes "winning" over there anyway?

I'll say this for the Repubs, they're not very punctual. McCain should be talking already, instead we're watching the attendees "party". :rolleyes:

[aapbolt]

Two items: If you guys are picking on her because of the names of her kids, you need to get back to talking about issues--that is seriously stupid. Who cares what people name their kids- it is their choice not yours. any person who has a disabled child wants that child to have as normal a life as possible, and while I might not like her bringing her child on TV it is her choice. I did not hear anyone trash Obama for having his daughters on stage after his wife gave her speech and then they showed him waving to them on the screen on the stage- that was a set up if ever there was one. If you are going to knock at the candidates because of their kids at least be fair and knock both sides.

there are a lot of people who have downs kids and they work hard to help their kids have normal lives. One of our best friends has a downs son and he is treated just the same as his brother, even though he will never get a college diploma his mom gives him every chance to mainstream. I think you should show a little compassion for Trig instead of taking cheap shots at his name or his mom bringing him on stage.

[TexasBolt]

Difference being, of course, that the only time Obama brought up his daughters in his speech was to make a point about one of his political beliefs. Palin was practically holding them up like trophies to prove what a super awesome person she is.

[Sotnos]

Difference being, of course, that the only time Obama brought up his daughters in his speech was to make a point about one of his political beliefs. Palin was practically holding them up like trophies to prove what a super awesome person she is.
I was shocked to hear she doesn't have household help. I thought for sure they'd have a nanny.

Anyway, isn't anyone else watching the fun tonight besides me?

[astro]

I was shocked to hear she doesn't have household help. I thought for sure they'd have a nanny.

Anyway, isn't anyone else watching the fun tonight besides me?

I watched a little bit of McCain's speech. I heard everyone laughing as he described his experience at being captured. He was met by an angry crowd.... response...ha,ha, ha... I don't get it. What was so funny?

[Flycoon]

Did one true word come out of Lindsey Graham's mouth during his speech?

Lindsey Grahame (lifelong bachelor ala Gov Crist, take it as you will) is a p o s.

[Maverick9911]

I did not hear anyone trash Obama for having his daughters on stage after his wife gave her speech and then they showed him waving to them on the screen on the stage- that was a set up if ever there was one.

I did. Fixed News had a whole segment on how it was "exploitation".

I could care less what she names her kids, though personally I happen to find those pretentious names just as silly as Carlin. Her bringing him on stage isn't the issue, its more with her handlers and surrogates.

Anyway, isn't anyone else watching the fun tonight besides me?

Went to the Rays game...dunno if I wanna see any of tonight's carnival. I value my blood pressure being at a calm state.

[Flycoon]

I'll be pissed if the Dems tuck their collective tails between their legs and don't go on the offensive after that idiotic speech from McCain about "changing" the government he has propped up for the last 7+ years.

[Maverick9911]

I hear Hillary is pissed off and coming to FL Monday to bite into Palin's ass.

And immediately after last night they released a HUGE rebuttal to all of Palin's lies, though asking the MSM to touch them would be like asking Jon Gruden to settle on one quarterback. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Kathleen Sebelius were all over the circuit this morning lashing out at her.

PS: Thanks, Sarah

(CNN) – Barack Obama's campaign for president has raised $10 million since Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin spoke Wednesday night, the campaign announced, calling it a "one-day record."

Palin, the governor of Alaska, launched harsh attacks on Obama, accusing him of being two-faced and a political lightweight with no significant legislative accomplishments.

"Coverage of the Palin attacks on the news this evening just pushed us over $10 million," Obama spokeswoman Jen Psaki said in an e-mail to reporters Wednesday night.

The Republican Party announced earlier in the day it had raised $1 million in the wake of Palin's speech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NBv88rG608

[Sotnos]

Lindsey Grahame (lifelong bachelor ala Gov Crist, take it as you will) is a p o s.
LOL didn't know he was a bachelor, hmmm. Never liked the guy, but wow he was mindblowingly awful tonight. I'd love to see a point by point dissection of that speech, that was chock full of complete BS backed up with pictures of military cemetaries behind him on the screen. Completely manipulative and disgusting.

Overall, for all this talk of maverick-ness, I thought most of what McCain said was no departure at all from Republican politics as usual. I was not impressed, especially with suggesting we have school choice (read: public funding for religious private schools) on a nationwide basis.

And trying to tell us Palin understands trying to pay the mortgage?! :rolleyes:

[TexasBolt]

Hey, did anyone know McCain was a POW?

And I'm going to guess they want a do-over on this:

http://images.politico.com/global/greenscreen.jpg

[Maverick9911]

Stephen Colbert will have a field day.

Did anyone see a tribute video for McCain tonight? I just saw some speech comments and if what I am seeing is correct, I am utterly disgusted - people are saying the video had graphic clips of one of the 9-11 planes exploding, blood on the streets and the collapse of the towers. I don't want to see the video or read further but I am wondering if this is correct.

I hope not.

[TexasBolt]

Yeah, that's the video being talked about in the previous page of this thread. I didn't watch but I understand it was brutal and Keith Olbermann was having none of it.

[Maverick9911]

Crap, figures that's the one post I missed.

Absolutely sickening.

Turns out it wasn't the only controversial video from the week. Remember the pledge video on Tuesday with the military funeral?

It was a video that was supposed to elicit soaring patriotism and real emotions about the Pledge of Allegiance. But to do that, it used fake soldiers and a staged military funeral instead of the real thing.

CBS News found that the footage of the 'funeral' and soldiers is what is called 'stock' footage. The soldiers were actors and the funeral scene was from a one-day film shoot, produced in June. No real soldiers were used during production.

The footage, sold by stock-film house Getty Images was produced by a commercial filmmaker in Chicago. Both Getty and the production company, Mr. Big Films, confirmed that the footage was shot on spec and sold to the Republican National Committee.

One of the actors, Perry Denton of Chicago, IL also confirmed that he was hired on a day-rate as an actor for the shoot and told CBS News he was surprised to learn the footage was shown at the convention.

YouTube wont play the video but apparently Tom Ridge called McCain "John Bush" live on MSNBC lol

[Donnie D]

Maybe he was referencing my post? /shrug

Yep - I was just about 6 keys off. Sorry

[Donnie D]

Amazing speech. Basically it was we Republicans have run a corrrupt ineffective administration for the past 8 years. Now give me a chance to change it. I've never seen someone distance themselves from the party like he did. In light of the speech, the VP choice begins to make sense, he needed someone to try and bring back the base that he insulted throughout the speech AND he needs another person who will be looked at as a change agent.

McCain is trying to say he has the experience to make the changes. He is also throwing yet another hail mary pass. He knows he can't win if he is tied to Bush and so he is trying to diviorce Bush as fast as possible.

The problem is that to get the nomination he had to marry Bush. The 90% voting record, the war votes. How he is going to work the 2 of these contrary positions is going to be interesting.

Also great stuff, when he paused for the applause when he was critical of the tax breaks for oil companies - the delegates were silent.

[WaiverWire]

The 90% voting record, the war votes. How he is going to work the 2 of these contrary positions is going to be interesting

That 90% figure was for only one year. During other years of the Bush administration he voted in the 70-80% range. I bet if you check the Congressional Record you will find some democrats with the same percentages.

McCain had problems in his run at first because he is much different than those that control the party had wanted. When others in the party started casting their votes in the primaries it became clear that republicans wanted nothing to do with what those in control wanted. This is why when you all say he is the same as the current trash in the White House I find it very funny. What those insiders can not realize is that their party has been telling them they want a change. Now they wake up and these insiders are looking square in the face of John McCain and I find it funny as hell.

At this point I do not see how we can lose either way the vote turns out.

[timothy]

In light of the speech, the VP choice begins to make sense, he needed someone to try and bring back the base that he insulted throughout the speech AND he needs another person who will be looked at as a change agent.

That, and to lock and seal the evangelical vote.

[Sotnos]

This is why when you all say he is the same as the current trash in the White House I find it very funny. What those insiders can not realize is that their party has been telling them they want a change. Now they wake up and these insiders are looking square in the face of John McCain and I find it funny as hell.Can you clarify, sorry but I couldn't follow that at all. I also don't see how anything McCain said last night is a departure from what we have currently, if I missed something then fill me in please.

[pete]

If you guys are picking on her because of the names of her kids, you need to get back to talking about issues--that is seriously stupid.

I have compassion for the kid. Let's not get it twisted.

My point is that they're selling this woman as the cultural epitome of America's small communities. She's not. She's the epitome of America's gated communities. And the pretentious names she's given her kids is one example of the disconnect between what the GOP is selling and what the reality is. People in small communities in America don't have three houses, either. I wouldn't even bring it up if her speech had anything at all to do about the issues, but it didn't. It was a blatant appeal for the renewal of the culture wars.

[Avery86]

I thought the constant chanting of "U-S-A! U-S-A!" in the middle of some of McCain's sentences was really cute. Can't even wait for the speech to be over to launch into full-blown jingoism. It's actually really creepy, and sort of disturbing, what post 9/11 patriotism has turned into.

[Donnie D]

The only thing we have, is fear itself. - The GOP's motto

[the_narrow_way]

I thought the constant chanting of "U-S-A! U-S-A!" in the middle of some of McCain's sentences was really cute. Can't even wait for the speech to be over to launch into full-blown jingoism. It's actually really creepy, and sort of disturbing, what post 9/11 patriotism has turned into.
I think a good number of the USA chants were in response to the guy way up top with the black and white postes that was critisizing the war, and also the Code Pink lady that was getting dragged off and creating a ruckus.

I agree that it's kinda scary how frothed-up everyone was getting during the war-drum portion of his speech. I just don't understand the blind patriotism. I love the USA and the ideals it was built on, but how can you be so proud and supportive of the situation, when it's so clear how bad we've f'ed things up.

[Jester47]

They don't see it... they are completely wrapped in our side is right and your side is wrong and damn anything else.

[the_narrow_way]

Blind Faith.

Good band.

Terrible ideology.

[WaiverWire]

Can you clarify, sorry but I couldn't follow that at all. I also don't see how anything McCain said last night is a departure from what we have currently, if I missed something then fill me in please.


McCain has always been seen by those that run the republican party as not one of them as he was not the bible totter they were and he was always more than willing to work with anyone on the other side of the aisle in order to get the job done. This is why he did not stand a chance in 2000. However after 8 years of Bush those that "are" the republican party voted for someone who those that are in control of the party did not want to see. You had the two front runners in McCain and a Mormon, when the leaders would had been much more happier with Mike Huckabee. And now they are looking at John McCain. I am not sold on his VP pick, but it did bring his party together and appease those that did not want McCain.
As for his speech last night I think it did not shed any more or any less than Obama's in what we are to expect.......other than their differences and similarities will be brought out in the debates......where they should be. Last night was for uniting the party, not winning an election.

[Bolthed]

Can you clarify, sorry but I couldn't follow that at all. I also don't see how anything McCain said last night is a departure from what we have currently, if I missed something then fill me in please.

If I may try to help interpret ...

John McCain is HATED by many of the far-right, staunch conservatives who are still in control of the GOP. Sure, McCain has slept with Bush for the last couple of years but he's only done (and is doing) what politicians do -- namely, whatever it takes to get nominated and then elected.

McCain hates Bush. And McCain's record in congress suggests that he also doesn't particularly care about toting the GOP line the way that they typically expect their loyalists to do. He's not "one of them." And WW is right to point out that the GOP was just as divided, if not moreso than the Dems were during the primary process. It just wasn't as much of an open soap opera ... it was more of a behind-the-scenes power stuggle, because the crusty ole bastards who have controlled the GOP for years didn't want McCain.

But change IS the primary theme in this election and the people chose McCain among the GOP candidates for that reason. So now that we see McCain's choice of Palin and now that we've seen their convention which was brutally bereft of any talk of policy or issue solutions ... it's pretty plain to see that McCain is continuing to do what he has to do to get elected (or at least make it a close race), and that is to solidify his base. And yeah, it's sad that the Republicans are so easily swayed by class warfare, and 9/11 imagery and transparently tough but hopelessly vague military posturing and petty insults, lies and cheap shots about the Democrats. It's sad, but it works ... and any of you who think this won't be a close and fiercely fought election are fooling yourselves.

WaiverWire simply points out that McCain very well could be our next president. And if you take the time to see how he REALLY differs from his party (and ignore much of the overt politicking that has been going on for the last couple of years), you'll know that even if McCain is the nation's choice he's still going to be a significant improvement from the last eight miserable years of George W. Bush, who was clearly just a puppet of those crusty ole neo-con, oil-lovin' bastards who will do anything to keep the GOP in power.

[Bolthed]

Sorry WW. I wasn't trying to speak for you. I was writing my diatribe before I saw that you posted. :redface:

[Sotnos]

Last night was for uniting the party, not winning an election.I'm sorry I bothered then, I thought it'd be a speech to win over undecideds! I personally thought Obama's speech had a lot more specifics, but that's JMO.

And if you take the time to see how he REALLY differs from his party (and ignore much of the overt politicking that has been going on for the last couple of years), you'll know that even if McCain is the nation's choice he's still going to be a significant improvement from the last eight miserable years of George W. Bush, who was clearly just a puppet of those crusty ole neo-con, oil-lovin' bastards who will do anything to keep the GOP in power.
Well, you get no argument from me that he'd be an improvement over what we have now (I'd McCain over most of the other repubs & wish he'd gotten the nod in '00), not that this is too hard to accomplish. However, I didn't like the message last night at all. He may do different, but last night he sure wasn't talking different, if you catch my drift. All the far right-wing social policy was touched on, cutting taxes blah blah blah. Look in the papers & look at your local government services if you want to see what tax cuts get you. Certainly did nothing to sway me, and I'm not one to go straight by the party ticket.

[pete]

And if you take the time to see how he REALLY differs from his party

Lets not get this completely confused though: McCain might be a paler shade of crimson, but he's not moderate. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He just represents one segment of the GOP (the bomb-the-heck-out-of-everything neoconservatives) that is less influentual than the money or the social conservatives.

However, that's not to say he doesn't go along with the money and the social conservatives quite regularly. It's a myth to say he doesn't.

http://www.ontheissues.org/john_mccain.htm

He's always opposed choice. He's for prayer in schools. He favors privatizing Social Security. He favors school vouchers. He's against raising taxes on the wealthy. He never met a trade bill he didn't love.

Social conservative issue. Social conservative issue. Money conservative issue. Social conservative issue. Money conservative issue. Money conservative issue.

He's been very good at building a "maverick" reputation by tweaking peripheral issues like global warming and campaign finance reform while at the same toeing the line on pretty much every other issue under the sun. The only one he hasn't is on immigration, and that's because he knows what Karl Rove knows: if they turn the Hispanic electorate against the GOP the same way the California GOP had the Hispanic electorate turn against them in that state, they'll be out of power for generations.

[pete]

Oh, and for the record, the wing of the GOP that McCain comes from (the bomb-everything-that-is-carbon-based-miniature-nukes-are-a-great-stocking-stuffer neoconservative wing) actually scares me a lot more than the social or money conservatives, because they're the ones who will actually get Americans killed by continuing to turn their backs on the 55 years of post-WW II foreign policy tradition that kept this nation safe for so long.

True, lack of health insurance and poverty will kill too, but not as acutely as reckless, jingoistic foreign policy.

[Maverick9911]

McCain gets this gleeful glint in his eyes when he talks about war, like he has unfinished business. When even his closest surrogates and old veterans, generals, etc. say they are frightened at the thought of someone with his temperament having total control, its frightening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=955Y3NJTRIE

Feed Joe a baby calf.

[Flycoon]

A caller on the Kathy Fountain show at 12:30 was responding to analysis of McCain's speech with typical FL redneck knee jerk reaction. Said he "hates" Obama's wife and Obama is a "dumb nigger". Talk about need for a 7 second delay.

But I'll bet he loves Caribou Barbie.

[pete]

Feed Joe a baby calf.

He's a heckuva lot more like Truman than Palin.

[pete]

Keep it above board, Flycoon. You don't need to be reprinting the "n" word or using a jab with sexist implications like "Caribou Barbie."

You don't have to become like them to beat them.

[jaydeedub]

After watching Palin I didn't even bother with McCain. The man is truely a war hero, and what he's been through in Nam is actually a part of our Navy training before (if we have to) go to Iraq or Afghanistan. We even named a Destroyer after him. Regardless of all this, it's not the type of message I'm looking for.

CNN's latest poll:

Which party's convention made the stronger case for why its candidate should be elected to the White House?
Democrats 58% 61980
Republicans 33% 35788
Neither 9% 9840
Total Votes: 107608

[aapbolt]

the big problem with the R party is that the people trying to run the show have forgotten their roots and what the party great. when you look at the economics free trade works among those nations that have equitable trade relations and economies. It sparks jobs and the creation of jobs. While we do lose physical labor jobs we do gain jobs requiring more education. furthermore, the jingoists and imperialists while part of the party were never the most important part. Those in charge have forgotten about the middle class that wants economic stability and good education so that their children can succeed and low taxes in order to control their own future. However, the great middle class is not adverse to paying taxes to help make society a better place, we need some form of health insurance for all people who are working and do not have health insurance and we need to regulate the economy better in order to facilitate growth and development within our own nation as well as rebuild our infrastructure which is crumbling as we speak. these issues as well as energy policy need to be discussed and solutions developed. The candidate who speaks to the issues and hits the middle first will be the candidate who wins the election. Pandering to one group or another will not work, the voters want change and will move towards rational change. Look, Obama got a lot of votes because of his honesty on not removing the federal gas tax and it cost Hillary and John. Obama needs to keep that honesty going as much as possible. whether someone has one house or three or a mansion on Manhattan is immaterial to me as long as they earned it through hard work and their own perseverance. Whether someone lives in a gated community or not is not all that important, because all of these people running for office are much wealthier than I am, but as long as it is by dint of their hard work I have no problem with it.
I, however, reserve my choice to reflect what I consider to be basic values. I will not teach nor endorse creationism which is religion and should not be taught in school as if it were science. I don't care if we have a moment of silence, but would rather say the Pledge which is all about teaching the core values of our country. I firmly believe that if you want to compare private to public schools then all kids should take the FCAT or some other test which will show how they perform on an equitable basis and that includes home schooled kids. I firmly believe that choice is fundamental to freedom and that government must protect our right to make choices and that includes the candidates for the office of President, but that government is not welcome in my bedroom nor snooping through my phone or e-mail without a warrant.
this election is a watershed election and very important to our future and the choices are very dramatic. Let us hope they stop the pandering and begin talking about what they want to do and how they will solve our natinal problems.

By the way I was named after my grandfather who was named after his grandfather and for Saint Athanasios, that is probably a pretentious name because he was the one who compiled the Bible, well maybe being named after Saint Peter is a bit more pretentious. (LOL--hope you get the joke?)

[RSchmitz]

Its CNN though...

[astro]

Olbermann's response to the 9/11 "tribute" video

PqW8a5kw3Vc

here's the "tribute"


dz_k7V0xc_c

[astro]

On the video about Palin, it mentioned the she supports the environment. Yet, in the beginning, she is moose-hunting with her father and did not support that polar bears are an endangered species. They even had a silhouette of a bear in the video. In addition, she supports aerial shooting of wolves.

[pete]

Here's a video about aerial wolf hunting.

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/8/31/22337/7183

Tough to watch, especially if you're a dog person.

[pete]

well maybe being named after Saint Peter is a bit more pretentious

Maybe. But I can walk down the streets of Scranton without people raising an eyebrow about my first name.

[astro]

Here's a video about aerial wolf hunting.

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/8/31/22337/7183

Tough to watch, especially if you're a dog person.

this is something that I will pass on. I am a big dog person.