Gratton not out after all

[Matt]

http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/sports/comments/chris-gratton-re-signed/

One year, 1.25 million.

[Sean]

Love the length, love the price, love the player. Bravo.

[bassassin]

Just one question where does everyone fit?

[Puckhead]

Love the length, love the price, love the player. Bravo.

This should be one helluva training camp...I think I'll take a two week leave of absence to observe...

[timothy]

That groan you just heard was the sound of Jussi Jokinen hitting the trading floor.

[aapbolt]

Yeah, where does he fit in? Will he center the 4th line between Tarns and R2? Dang they will probably trade Jussi and Oullett and have career 4th liners take the 3rd and 4th lines. I mean will they put Craig on the 3rd with Halpern when he comes back or have Gratts center the 3rd with Jussi and Oullett until Halpern comes back leaving Hall to center Roberts,Recchi, Tarns,Craig, and R2. Well are there any trade rumors out there? This is just wild or crazy in its own way. Well People do we take bets on who stays and who goes??? Or do run a contest on this??

[CTLightning26]

Not sure what to say:

*We have too many bodies for the third-fourth line
*I guess you can't have too many bodies competing for third and fourth line slots.

It might also be an indication that Halpern will be out longer. :(

[Sotnos]

Cue 1,000 more jokes about all our forwards.

Can't say I'm disappointed, he had his ups & downs last year but hopefully a lot of that was due to his injuries. Once he got the stupid penalties out of his system I had no problems with his play.

Well People do we take bets on who stays and who goes??? Or do run a contest on this??
You could start up a poll (or I could) ;)

[KyleFreadrich43]

Don't hold your breathe on Halpern coming back....it's not looking good.

My opinion has been that this ownership wasn't necessarily signing all these other players to take the places of some on the previous roster, but to give the Lightning some bargaining chips and tradeable players to possibly strengthen their prospects, draft picks, goaltending or defense.

I would love to see a 3rd line of Ouellet-Gratton-Artyukhin.

[pete]

:wtf:

[KyleFreadrich43]

This should be one helluva training camp...I think I'll take a two week leave of absence to observe...

Have they officially announced whats going on with training camp?

[Bolthed]

Man, I think these guys just like shopping. They see a player at a price that they like (Recchi, Gratton) and they can't resist.

Clearly they don't want to be waiting for Halpern to come back, and with the seriousness of his injury it's a good idea to treat him like a playoff-run trade acquisition.

The odd thing is sorting through how many lower-line players that they are certainly committed to. I don't mind having depth down there because Roberts is certain to miss time with injuries or just need rest.

Let's look ...

Third line: Gratton centering Recchi and either Ouellet or Jokinen (one of them is dealt)
Fourth line: Hall centering Roberts and R2
Pressbox regulars: Craig, Tarnasky

[CupChamps2004]

Don't hold your breathe on Halpern coming back....it's not looking good.

Heard nothing on Halpern. Why is it not looking good?

[bassassin]

Maybe they will create the "crash line" after all so you have
Tarnasky-Gratton-Artyukhin
and then some combination of Recchi, Roberts,Jokinen, Ouellet, Craig etc on the 3rd line.

I just hope they keep Jokinen I am not as bothered about Ouellet but I think Jokinen could be great for the 3rd line to provide some balanced scoring throughout the lineup.

[KyleFreadrich43]

Heard nothing on Halpern. Why is it not looking good?

On one of Cristedero's blogs, someone, who said they were a friend of Halperns, stated the 1st surgery wasn't taking, and that he might have to have a second, and that if he did, he'd be more worried about walking right, rather than just playing hockey again.

I don't know either way for sure, but it didn't seem like someone would just pull that out of their butt without something to substantiate it.

[KyleFreadrich43]

Maybe they will create the "crash line" after all so you have
Tarnasky-Gratton-Artyukhin
and then some combination of Recchi, Roberts,Jokinen, Ouellet, Craig etc on the 3rd line.

I just hope they keep Jokinen I am not as bothered about Ouellet but I think Jokinen could be great for the 3rd line to provide some balanced scoring throughout the lineup.

I think Ouellet would be better on the 3rd line, especially since he can be effective on the powerplay when used properly, unlike when Turtleshella tried to use him.

[Bolthed]

I'd rather they kept Jokinen over Ouellet. More skill and versatility. And he's money in the shootout.

[CupChamps2004]

On one of Cristedero's blogs, someone, who said they were a friend of Halperns, stated the 1st surgery wasn't taking, and that he might have to have a second, and that if he did, he'd be more worried about walking right, rather than just playing hockey again.

I don't know either way for sure, but it didn't seem like someone would just pull that out of their butt without something to substantiate it.

Eklund does it all the time... :)

Thanks for the info.

[aapbolt]

since I am not the most tech savvy person around maybe you, Sotnos, can set up a poll with all the 3rd/4th line guys and we vote for stay or go. Of course Roberts gets my first vote to go. thank you in advance my friend :thumb:

[Hoek]

Heard nothing on Halpern. Why is it not looking good?

IMO that's exactly why it's not looking good. Not even a sniff of a hint of how he could fit into this from new front office. :bigcry:

I'm so pissed that he went to that useless World Championship with Torts now, arggghhh.. He was my new favorite Bolt and it just would have been so awesome to have him around to start the season with this influx of forwards.

[KyleFreadrich43]

I'd rather they kept Jokinen over Ouellet. More skill and versatility. And he's money in the shootout.

Skill is relative....Jokinen has speed, but Ouellet isn't afraid to get in front of the net on the powerplay to deflect shots. As for shoot-outs, lets hope the goalies have a better say in the games this year and not so many go to them :)

Also, Ouellet is $500K less, though now that I look at it, he's an UNrestricted FA after this season, whereas Jokinen is a RESTRICTED FA. That may have the most to do with who goes where.

[ThorBolt]

The Gratton signing is not that strange but it does kind of show how things are going to look next season.

First off, while I don't like all of the FA signings trading one of them would be bad form. IMO, what FA would sign with the Lightning next season if they thought they could be traded before the season ever starts. So expecting them to trade one is unrealistic.

Now how would the lines look, while it might be wiser to not try until the Bolts go a week without a FA signing or trade, at the rate OK is going that might be never. So looking at the signing and player to see who stay and who goes.

Forwards
1: Prospal -Lecavalier - St. Louis
2: Malone - Stamkos – Vrbata
3: Reechi - Hall - Roberts
4: Artyukhin - Gratton - Tarnasky

Scratches: Craig - Ward
LTIR: Halpren

Traded
Jussi Jokinen
Michel Ouellet

Norfolk
Wyatt Smith

Defensemen
1: Carle - ??
2: Paul Ranger - Shane O’Brien
3: Picard - Niskala

Probable Trade
Filip Kuba

Trade
Mike Lundin
Matt Smaby

Norfolk
Ty Wishart - New

Goalies
Olaf Kolzig
Mike Smith

[pete]

Defensemen
1: Carle - ??
2: Paul Ranger - Shane O’Brien
3: Picard - Niskala

Probable Trade
Filip Kuba

Tavares here we come then.

[RSchmitz]

I like Gratton, glad he is back in the mix of things. Great signing for a player who could rebound and be a solid contributer. I want to see him on a line with R2 and Nasty.

But, once again, where do you put him? His signing amazingly puts a little more clarity on the situation on who is staying and who is going, where as many were only speculating that he might stay due to him rooming with Stamkos.

This now makes 26 players under one way contracts not including Lundin. So the Lightning will either have to waive/trade/or pay them NHL money for playing in the AHL.

[Evan]

I don't understand the hate to lundin, his position play makes him one of the better defensive defenseman the lightning have under contract. Sure he isn't a huge hitter, but he is still growing into the pro game. I expect his size to be larger coming into camp due to his work ethic. So i wouldn't go ruling him out so early. Plus you don't trade off your depth defense, as that can lead to calling up a ahl defender and having him lost on waivers either up or down (depending on elegibility). I think they will be stuck with carrying 2 extra d and 1 forward through the season.

[pete]

It's not hate, it's a question of having to carry a player on the NHL roster who isn't necessarily ready to handle more than a dozen minutes a night of ice time. He's probably not ready to be a full time NHLer but he got forced into the position last season.

[astro]

The Gratton signing is not that strange but it does kind of show how things are going to look next season.

First off, while I don't like all of the FA signings trading one of them would be bad form. IMO, what FA would sign with the Lightning next season if they thought they could be traded before the season ever starts. So expecting them to trade one is unrealistic.

Now how would the lines look, while it might be wiser to not try until the Bolts go a week without a FA signing or trade, at the rate OK is going that might be never. So looking at the signing and player to see who stay and who goes.

Forwards
1: Prospal -Lecavalier - St. Louis
2: Malone - Stamkos – Vrbata
3: Reechi - Hall - Roberts
4: Artyukhin - Gratton - Tarnasky

Scratches: Craig - Ward
LTIR: Halpren

Traded
Jussi Jokinen
Michel Ouellet

Norfolk
Wyatt Smith

Defensemen
1: Carle - ??
2: Paul Ranger - Shane O’Brien
3: Picard - Niskala

Probable Trade
Filip Kuba

Trade
Mike Lundin
Matt Smaby

Norfolk
Ty Wishart - New

Goalies
Olaf Kolzig
Mike Smith

There is no way they are trading Kuba. Why can't Smaby play for Norfolk?

[RSchmitz]

The Lightning need to dump 1 defenseman and 3 forwards before the start of the season. Ward/Tarnasky/Craig/Ouellet/Jokinen at the forward position, Lundin/Picard/Kuba on defense. They should make at least one deal before the start of training camp.

[RSchmitz]

Why can't Smaby play for Norfolk?

99.9% chance that he does

[RSchmitz]

Here is an interesting scenario. If you are approached by another team and they offer you a veteran defenseman (Regehr?) and a pick, but they want two of the young roster defensemen, do you take the deal? I would make that trade

[KyleFreadrich43]

Here is an interesting scenario. If you are approached by another team and they offer you a veteran defenseman (Regehr?) and a pick, but they want two of the young roster defensemen, do you take the deal? I would make that trade

Not if Picard is involved. They have to keep him.

[KyleFreadrich43]

It's not hate, it's a question of having to carry a player on the NHL roster who isn't necessarily ready to handle more than a dozen minutes a night of ice time. He's probably not ready to be a full time NHLer but he got forced into the position last season.

I'd hate to disagree, but when you downplay one of, if not the only bright spot this team had last season.

At a +3, and averaging almost 14 minutes a night, he played quite responsibly, and though you rarely heard his name on the score sheet, you also rarely heard his name at major fault for anything as well.

I say Lundin, at least earned the right to get beat out of his position in the line-up. FEW defenseman, ever come in, in their rookie season straight out of college, and play as well and responsibly as he did.

As far as I'm concerned, one way contract or not, Niskala has his work cut out for him in making the team. It's obvious they aren't afraid of going with the younger guys, the question will be, which ones?

[WaiverWire]

We all saw the work ethic of Lundin during camp, which got him the stay in the NHL. I will be surprised if we do not see the same work ethic.

[RSchmitz]

Not if Picard is involved. They have to keep him.

Why not Picard?

[KyleFreadrich43]

Here is an interesting scenario. If you are approached by another team and they offer you a veteran defenseman (Regehr?) and a pick, but they want two of the young roster defensemen, do you take the deal? I would make that trade

NO....I'd rather risk another hard season than start spending the few assets this team has.

Regher is good, but he won't make enough of a difference if he's brought in and the defense has 2 holes, one to still be filled by a young defenseman.

Go with what they have for 20 games, and see what comes of it.

[aapbolt]

i think the competition will be fierce at camp, which is what Barry should want and needs in order to get people working on his system. Lundin made the team last year because he worked really hard and continued to do so throughout a very trying season. the next few weeks should be very interesting, especially if they have more signings.

[RSchmitz]

NO....I'd rather risk another hard season than start spending the few assets this team has.

Regher is good, but he won't make enough of a difference if he's brought in and the defense has 2 holes, one to still be filled by a young defenseman.

Go with what they have for 20 games, and see what comes of it.

Your going to risk losing Lundin on waivers anyways. Plus you have Wishart coming up through the system, I think its worth it.

[KyleFreadrich43]

Why not Picard?

He was one of the few that wasn't afraid to get his nose dirty, he threw hits when nobody else would. Only Kuba's job should be in jeopardy, he's slow, irresponsible, and wastes his physical frame, outside of that, everyone else deserves the right to lose their spot next season.

[KyleFreadrich43]

Your going to risk losing Lundin on waivers anyways. Plus you have Wishart coming up through the system, I think its worth it.

I'd rather lose Niskala....they can already see where they stand with Lundin and Picard in the NHL, with Niskala, he's up in the air, and I'd rather risk it costing a 6th round pick, than an NHL defenseman.

[RSchmitz]

I'd rather lose Niskala....they can already see where they stand with Lundin and Picard in the NHL, with Niskala, he's up in the air, and I'd rather risk it costing a 6th round pick, than an NHL defenseman.

You got to give to get, I like Picard too but... We can't trade Niskala right after we sign him as an UFA, nobody is going to bite. Kuba I would deal for all the reasons you just mentioned. I think he is a waste of roster spot, but your removing a vet defenseman.

[aapbolt]

I agree. I would rather see us lose niskala or hutchinson than Lundin or Picard who have both shown that they are NHL caliber Dmen.

[KyleFreadrich43]

You got to give to get, I like Picard too but... We can't trade Niskala right after we sign him as an UFA, nobody is going to bite. Kuba I would deal for all the reasons you just mentioned. I think he is a waste of roster spot, but your removing a vet defenseman.

I just can't see replacing a 23 year old with potential (Picard) you've already seen for a 27 (by the time the season starts) unknown (Niskala).

Trade a guy like Kuba for whatever you can get, someone has to still believe he's worth something. Then sign a guy like Berard, who can fill the spot for probably less money. I think he's finally set for his comeback with his problems behind him.

[missK]

Is Niskala the player with the option to go to Europe if he doesn't make the team in Tampa? If that's so I don't think you will see him in Norfolk. Will he have to clear waivers to go to Europe?

[Bolthed]

Let's be clear - we ARE set up to lose either Niskala or Hutchinson. They are going to compete for the No. 6/7 spots at best, so the loser of that batter is either subjected to waivers or, in Niskala's case, has the option to go back to Europe.

The problem with our d-corps is that Feaster and Torts made a HUGE mistake last season by letting Lundin cross that 70-game threshold. He should not have been able to do that, but now he can't be sent down without being subjected to waivers (which he would not clear). So Lundin either gets traded or is lost on waivers or makes the team as a No. 6 or No.7 dman, when ideally he'd be on the top pair in Norfolk. Big mistake made with him. Big.

The thing is, with Hutch and Niskala, you've got two guys who absolutely tore up the AHL last season. They BOTH deserve an NHL shot, and I'd like to see them compete in training camp for the chance at that shot. Problem is, the current Lightning d-corps needs some more thump, and they'll have to trade either Lundin or Kuba to get it.

Here's what I'd like to see ...

Kuba and Ouellet for Bieksa and a third-round pick

Carle-Bieksa
Ranger-Picard
SOB-Niskala/Hutchinson
Lundin

[Bolthed]

Another option is Rhett Warrener. Not as complete a player as Bieksa, but capable of playing the defensive defenseman role, albeit with some expected injuries. I'm also not clear on his situation, as he was waived by Calgary but may not be FA because he was not bought out. Anyone know? If he's an FA, I'd say sign him and then deal Kuba and either Jokinen or Ouellet for picks if you can't flip them for Bieksa. Cullimore is also an option, but he'd be more of a third-pair guy, which means he wouldn't do much to strengthen our overall d-corps.

[KyleFreadrich43]

I would love to have Bieska on the Lightning, he's a very rare breed of all-around defenseman. Not too mention, he has a very underrated shot from the point, something this power-play needs.

I say move Kuba, and preferably Jokinen over Ouellet, but I'd give up either for Bieska. Give Niskala the preseason and 20 games to beat out Lundin for the spot, and then make the decision.

[dmitry]

Another option is Rhett Warrener. Not as complete a player as Bieksa, but capable of playing the defensive defenseman role, albeit with some expected injuries. I'm also not clear on his situation, as he was waived by Calgary but may not be FA because he was not bought out. Anyone know? If he's an FA, I'd say sign him and then deal Kuba and either Jokinen or Ouellet for picks if you can't flip them for Bieksa. Cullimore is also an option, but he'd be more of a third-pair guy, which means he wouldn't do much to strengthen our overall d-corps.

Warrener is not a FA. Lightning could probably trade a pick for him if they wanted to pay his 2.5 million salary. Flames are trying to jettison him.

[CTLightning26]

Not if Picard is involved. They have to keep him.

IMO, i agree. Picard is nearly untouchable

[CTLightning26]

that's a no on Warrener.
last resort i might take him on re-entry at half price, but probably not
want to keep both oulett and jokinen, but if one stays i want it to be jokinen

[RSchmitz]

Some of you are conveniently ignoring the # of 1-way contracts on the team right now.

[Matt]

We can't trade Niskala right after we sign him as an UFA, nobody is going to bite.

Niskala was an RFA. The Lightning acquired his rights for a 6th round pick then signed him.

[Sotnos]

Some of you are conveniently ignoring the # of 1-way contracts on the team right now.
Seems to me someone (or more than 1 guy) is going to get moved & they might have to pay a player or two in the high 6 figures to play in Norfolk, I'm sure the owners noticed this when they gave out these contracts. Dumping two promising young d-men just to cut down the # of bodies doesn't make much sense to me.

[chad]

Some of you are conveniently ignoring the # of 1-way contracts on the team right now.

1 ways don't guarantee NHL time.

It simply means if you want to move a guy with a 1-way, then you risk losing him, which you know. For players like Lundin that's an issue for TB. (Or Niskala, who may not be a guarantee waiver claim, but we lose him to Europe.)

HOWEVER, for others like Hutchinson, who falls into a category of older AHLers like a Craig MacDonald or Matheiu Darche, it means that when that player gets passed through waivers (a more-than-likely occurrence), they get paid NHL money in the minors. That's the benefit of a 1-way for them, and a literal price to pay for the club for having someone in the AHL with that many pro games under their belt.

[Jester47]

Seems to me someone (or more than 1 guy) is going to get moved & they might have to pay a player or two in the high 6 figures to play in Norfolk, I'm sure the owners noticed this when they gave out these contracts...

I don't know boss lady, maybe they are counting on some of those one ways being in NF... maybe they are willing to pay to have NF be more competitive???

Just a thought...

BTW, I love being the XO Sniper!!!.

[KyleFreadrich43]

Some of you are conveniently ignoring the # of 1-way contracts on the team right now.

Not ignoring it, just knowing something has to be done regardless.

[Bolthed]

I think at least one of Ouellet and Jokinen will be traded. And Ward, Craig and Tarnasky ... any of them could be waived and end up in Norfolk if they aren't claimed. It's also very likely that we'll carry two spare forwards, so I'm kinda looking at Craig and Tarns for the pressbox. In my mind, it's much less likely that they signed a guy like Adam Hall with the idea that he might not make the team (if that happened, it would be because he sucked in training camp, which is probably not gonna happen).

[timothy]

The thing is, with Hutch and Niskala, you've got two guys who absolutely tore up the AHL last season. They BOTH deserve an NHL shot, and I'd like to see them compete in training camp for the chance at that shot. Problem is, the current Lightning d-corps needs some more thump, and they'll have to trade either Lundin or Kuba to get it.

And... Niskala was a beast in the World's this year too. Attracted alot of attention.

[RSchmitz]

I still haven't quite processed the idea of ownership spending for healthy scratches and depth in the minor leagues. My apologies on the 1-way contract statement

[Sean]

You can't see why ownership would pay to have depth in the minors?

[chad]

Did you see Norfolk's record last year?

Last year when Ouellet went down, we turned to Karlsson and Darche.

No thanks.

[RSchmitz]

You can't see why ownership would pay to have depth in the minors?

No. I am just not use to seeing players w/ 1 way contracts in the minors. Its cash that was never available in the past.

[Bolthed]

It's the right way to do business.

Although I have a weird, sneaking suspicion that Niskala AND Hutchinson could step into regular top-6 minutes this season and really establish themselves well as NHLers. So I'm a bit frustrated at the logjam we've got. And Lundin is a fine prospect, an asset I really don't want to see discarded. Still, we are committed to our revamped young core of blueliners - Carle, Picard, Ranger and SOB - and we can't ice a kiddie corps, so we have to hope that the competition in training camp goes far to sort it all out.

[ThorBolt]

My thoughts on defense are that this ownership group is going to be slanted toward the players that they brought in more than the players that were already here.

I don't dislike Smaby or Lundin I just think they are going to get caught in a numbers game.

Looking at the TBL Web Site the following is the defensemen they have listed. Now you can read into it what you will but I find the names and the missing names interesting.

18 Matthew Carle
24 Andrew Hutchinson
71 Filip Kuba
39 Mike Lundin
55 Shane O'Brien
2 Alexandre Picard
54 Paul Ranger
32 Matt Smaby
Ty Wishart

Note that Niskala is missing despite the fact that he was signed BEFORE Hutchinson. So we are left looking at the following situation. IMO, It is most likely that there will be 3 new players skating on defense at the start of the year. Carle, Hutchinson and an as yet traded for player will be with the Bolts and Wishart will be in Nor. That leaves 4 spots (3 playing, 1 scratch) to come from the list of Kuba, Lundin, O'Brien, Picard, Ranger and Smaby (or 6 players for 4 slots). One or two of those players will be heading out via trade to get the other D-man Lawton wants, so the question becomes who goes.

[chad]

No offense to the TBL crew, but I wouldn't put a lot of stock in who they have listed there. It's notorious for being incomplete, etc. Wishart there and Mihalik not listed makes no sense. Someone just threw him up there.

Their organizational roster is filled with players that are no longer with the club.