Downie in trouble

[CTLightning26]

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. … The American Hockey League today announced that Norfolk Admirals right wing Steve Downie has been suspended indefinitely, pending league review, as a result of his actions in a game at Hershey on Feb. 28.

Downie was assessed a game misconduct under AHL Rule 41.1 for physical abuse of an official.

[Jester47]

Anyone with any more details? Did he punch or make contact with the ref or did he just yell at him until he cried???

[cromag]

Anyone with any more details? Did he punch or make contact with the ref or did he just yell at him until he cried???

If you count slashing the linesman across the shin as making contact :duh:

Apparently, it was quite blatant. My guess is he gets around 100 games.

[Jester47]

If you count slashing the linesman across the shin as making contact...

WOW!!! That was a bone headed move... he played with such restraint while up with the Bolts... I wounder what precipitated that reaction - not that it in anyway would justify it, just want to get the whole picture.

[RSchmitz]

Definitely a dumb move on his part. That is a career ender

[KyleFreadrich43]

"Norfolk forward Steve Downie then returned to center ice for the face-off and slashed linesman Mike Hamilton across the right shin. Referee Jeff Smith assessed a game misconduct on Downie for physical abuse of officials under ruler 41.2 category one. The ruling calls for an automatic 20-game suspension."

[Pepper]

Now the Boyle trade is looking even better.:rolleyes:

[Hoek]

Okay now I'd really like a do-over on the Boyle trade. *sigh*

[Jester47]

Is it on youtube yet?

[Sotnos]

"Norfolk forward Steve Downie then returned to center ice for the face-off and slashed linesman Mike Hamilton across the right shin. Referee Jeff Smith assessed a game misconduct on Downie for physical abuse of officials under ruler 41.2 category one. The ruling calls for an automatic 20-game suspension."
Wow. I'd ask what in hell he was thinking, but I guess he just wasn't. Stupid kid probably just blew his pro career.

[timothy]

Good grief. :hotwater:

[njbolt12]

Not good. I'm sure the league will come down hard on this, rather than suspend OV and Malkin for their dirty hits this year.

This really is a shame. Steve Downie + anger management = great hockey player.

[backstop]

Damn. Big time bummer. I agree with everyone else, he likely just blew his career. I think the league is more than in the right if they just ban him indefinitely. Absolutely no excuse for that. How depressing, though... he had been playing so incredibly well and even kept his temper in check the vast majority of the time. See ya later, Stevie, wish you could have stuck around.

[njbolt12]

Damian's blog is saying he was trying to swipe at an opponent's stick on a faceoff and hit the ref. Seems like it wasn't intentional and the ref overreacted, but we'll have to see the video and what the AHL's decision is.

I have a sinking feeling this is going to be a suspension based on his reputation though.

[timothy]

It's too bad, the kid definitely has talent, but he's too much of a punk.

Wow. You haven't even heard all sides of the story yet. That's a bit punkish IMO.

[CTLightning26]

Not good. I'm sure the league will come down hard on this, rather than suspend OV and Malkin for their dirty hits this year.

This really is a shame. Steve Downie + anger management = great hockey player.

apparently, he did go through anger management.
guess it only helps so much

[CTLightning26]

Damian's blog is saying he was trying to swipe at an opponent's stick on a faceoff and hit the ref. Seems like it wasn't intentional and the ref overreacted, but we'll have to see the video and what the AHL's decision is.

I have a sinking feeling this is going to be a suspension based on his reputation though.

that's good news, i guess.
it seemed a little ridiculous, even with his history, that he would slash the ref just because he was mad

[Avery86]

The Downie bashing articles are out in full force already.

If Carle never does anything for the rest of his career, it's still a great trade for the Flyers simply because they no longer have to deal with Downie.

I'm still waiting until something more definitive comes out before I pass judgment. That being said - I was afraid something like this would happen, whether it was on purpose, or a reputation incident.

[backstop]

that's good news, i guess.
it seemed a little ridiculous, even with his history, that he would slash the ref just because he was mad

He did cross check a teammate in the mouth for refusing to participate in hazing, so it's not that unbelievable

[timothy]

From Cristodero's blog (http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/2009/03/ahl-suspends-do.html) (great write-up)


But Norfolk GM Mike Butters said Downie was trying to swipe at the stick of a Hershey player on a faceoff. He added that even if Downie's stick hit the official's skate (and Butters said that after watching the video "70 times in slow motion, stop fame" he still is not sure that happened), it was unintentional.

"I am absolutely sure," Butters said Sunday, "there was no intent whatsoever for any aggressive actions toward the official."

Butters said the official did not fall on the play and there was no interaction between player and official after the faceoff. Butters said he was shocked Downie was written up.


From the GM perspective, it sure seems like there is more than one side to the story, which is why all the piling on and vilification is punkish.

This is confirming what I've thought about the relative "quiet" comments on the Downie front these past weeks is that the hater still have their fingers on the triggers.


The linesman was really not even part of this," Butters said. "The centerman across from (Downie) was yapping at him. "(Downie) went to swipe at the stick. He swung in a downward motion and hit the puck. The intent was there to hit the puck. He may or may not have clipped the official's skate."

AHL spokesman Jason Chaimovitch said the league will have no additional comment until it sees video of the incident and renders a decision. He said that may not happen until Tuesday.

[backstop]

What I question about Butter's statement is that he references the "linesman who wrote him up". Obviously, the ref gave him a match penalty so it's not like something unnoticeable happened during the game and then the linesman complained after. I really want to see the video.

[timothy]

What I question about Butter's statement is that he references the "linesman who wrote him up".

Butters didn't say the linesman wrote him up. You should read the referenced article.

[backstop]

Butters didn't say the linesman wrote him up. You should read the referenced article.

"Butters said the official did not fall on the play and there was no interaction between player and official after the faceoff. Butters said he was shocked Downie was written up."

[gwf82]

"Butters said the official did not fall on the play and there was no interaction between player and official after the faceoff. Butters said he was shocked Downie was written up."

yourreading comprehension is different than mine obviously as I still am not reading what you think was wrote here...

[backstop]

I took Butters comments to mean that he was written up... well after the incident occurred. He made it sound like there was nothing even mentioned about the incident at the time. That certainly doesn't seem to be the case from every other source; Downie received a match penalty which carries with it an automatic suspension/review.

edit: Not a match, but a 2min+game misc. Automatic suspension/review just the same

[Sean]

Having not actually seen what happened, it realllllly sounds to me that Downie made accidental contact with the official and he got the suspension because of the name on the jersey.

[backstop]

``He was taking a faceoff and the center across from him began chirping at him and (Downie) was looking to swat that guy's stick. There was absolutely zero intent by Steve to make contact with the official and he happened to hit the puck and knock it over the glass.

``I was totally surprised to see (the scoresheet) because emotions were obviously hot with Hershey's comeback and apparently the linesman didn't take that into consideration. He got emotional about what happened and it shouldn't have even been written up. I'm always concerned when refs act like guys are out to get them, especially in this case where Steve had zero intent to harm him.

``I'm hoping that Jim Mill and his staff see that the tape clearly shows the Hershey guy jawing at Downie and shows Downie making contact with the guy's stick and the puck. If cooler heads prevail, he shouldn't even get a suspension, but I'd be shocked if it was anything more than three games.''

Pulled that from the Admirals Zone website (allegedly quote from Butters). Again, he makes it sound like the linesman took some sort of action, which I don't think is the case. What I thought was more interesting were the comments about hitting the puck... does this mean that they were actually taking the faceoff when it happened? If so, calling any sort of contact "abuse" unless it was blatantly obvious seems pretty far fetched. I'm dying to see the tape on this.

[timothy]

does this mean that they were actually taking the faceoff when it happened? If so, calling any sort of contact "abuse" unless it was blatantly obvious seems pretty far fetched.

Yes, they were taking a faceoff. But, my guess is the alleged "contact" with the linesman and the batting of the puck happened before the linesman dropped the puck.

[backstop]

Yes, they were taking a faceoff. But, my guess is the alleged "contact" with the puck/linesman happened before the linesman dropped the puck.

I know they were at a faceoff... the way Butters phrased it though it sounded like the puck/linesman contact happened simultaneously. If Downie hit puck AND other player's stick, though, at least enough to make the puck go over the boards (!), all in the same little motion, that suggests to me that maybe they were actually taking the faceoff when the contact occurred? I guess the image I had gotten from the previous story was that Downie skated up to the circle and slashed the linesman apart from any faceoff motion.

[Sotnos]

Honestly, Butters is the GM, he's going to defend his player. A video would certainly be helpful, because every other write-up I've seen made it sound very intentional.

[pete]

If Butters is stepping up to the plate here for Downie, I'm going to reserve judgement. It doesn't sound like the end of his career, though. Maybe the end of his season, at most.

[timothy]

Honestly, Butters is the GM, he's going to defend his player. A video would certainly be helpful, because every other write-up I've seen made it sound very intentional.

Is that because of a pre-disposed bias against Downie?

[Sotnos]

Is that because of a pre-disposed bias against Downie?
I hope you are asking about bias on the media's part, which certainly might exist. I gave the guy a clean slate in my mind since he's been here, and he gave us no reason since we traded for him to think of him in any negative light.

[backstop]

Bias is often justified. Perhaps not for us, because I, like you all, am reserving judgement until we can see a video. For the press and league administration that has seen the ample goonery in the past, though, I can see why they might jump to that conclusion. Like Butters said, Downie has that reputation, now he has to deal with it and walk on eggshells.

[timothy]

I hope you are asking about bias on the media's part, which certainly might exist.

Yes. The context was your comment about "...every other write-up I've seen...".

[Sotnos]

Yes. The context was your comment about "...every other write-up I've seen...".
Alrighty. It's certainly something to take into consideration.

Where are the Ads fans today, we need some input!

[backstop]

Alrighty. It's certainly something to take into consideration.

Where are the Ads fans today, we need some input!

Checked their boards. Only one person saw the game (that said so, anyway), and he said he couldn't tell. Sooner or later the video will get posted, I hope.

[pete]

Yeah, the game was in Hershey, so the Ads fans didn't get the opportunity.

[backstop]

Yeah, the game was in Hershey, so the Ads fans didn't get the opportunity.

It was televised (at least online) though. I don't have access to the archive so I'm not able to view it on AHLLive

[pete]

Well, it's wierd: it's not on the AHL Live feed according to one of the Ads fans. He says he saw both the Hershey and Ads feeds and neither announcer even noticed what had happened, which doesn't exactly jibe with what Hershey's announcer said after the game:

The two teams came to center ice for the face-off, and Downie stepped into the face-off circle. Linesman Hamilton prepared to drop the puck. Instead of trying to win the face-off, Downie took a baseball-like swing with full wind-up and struck Hamilton across the right shin. Watching the replay no less than 20 times myself during the postgame, I was appalled not only at the lack of respect for an official, but the sheer violence from one man to another.

Someone is lying in this equation.

[CTLightning26]

Well, it's wierd: it's not on the AHL Live feed according to one of the Ads fans. He says he saw both the Hershey and Ads feeds and neither announcer even noticed what had happened, which doesn't exactly jibe with what Hershey's announcer said after the game:



Someone is lying in this equation.

i know it......total opposite

[backstop]

Jesus. Talk about two sides of the story...

[pete]

The Ads seem to be fairly confident that the suspension will be lifted after Tuesday.

They seem to be pinning that belief on the fact that A.) Downie got the puck first, which doesn't seem to fit the intent of trying to attack an official, and B.) the video seems to show that the only reason he hit the official was the Hershey players' stick pushing Downie's.

Hopefully this gets resolved, because he's one of the first guys that you would think would get called up Wednesday.

Here's the guys I suspect you might see once the recalls go down, in no particular order:

Brandon Segal
Blair Jones
Radek Smolenak
Paul Szczechura
Steve Downie
Justin Keller
Vladimir Mihalik
Ty Wishart
Riku Helenius

The guys in bold are the ones I think it's pretty imperative for the Lightning to get a look at in order to make contract decisions in the summer.

[CTLightning26]

I hope they bring up a few players before March 4, so that doesn't count in the 3-4 callups you can make after the trade deadline. Right now, they are at 21 players and Malik looks to be on the shelf again..
I'd bring up Mihalik, Bochenski and Brookbank for Tuesday.. if there are no trades. (maybe someone takes the two Bs off your hands in re-entry, because IMO they are not part of our future)
It would also be smart to make the Recchi and Roberts trades before Tuesday or right after so you can recall before the deadline. (not sure when that is March 4 at 6?, March 5 at 12:01 a.m.)
The question i have is, if they sign Fadden, can they bring Fadden and Tokarski right into the big club without that counting on the callups after the trade deadline? I assume so, but...
If you can, you can take a look at them for a game or two or at least give them a taste of an nhl practice or two before sending them down for a few in the minors...

[timothy]

with the information out at the time i wrote my comment, it was considered intentional. now, others have written statements about it showing a different side. i would hope that butters will have his player's back. if the league decides that no suspension is warrented, i will retract my punk comment.

happy?

And I called you out as making a punkish statement before there was a 2nd side of the story published. There's always 3 sides to the story. Each team has a side (via their media outlets), and then there will be the league's side of the story.

I mean... the truth may reveal that Downie's action was intention, but I believe we should wait for all the facts to come out and the kid have his day in AHL court before just piling on. I mean R2 gets the short end of the stick all the time because of his reputation. I think Steve's done an admiral job this season controlling his emotions and temper. Why not give the kid the benefit of the doubt as your first action, instead of your first action being to assume the worst about him?


And I only used the word 'punkish' to describe your comments, because in your comments you called Downie out as a punk.

[bassassin]

I want to see Keller called up always thought he could be good, from what I have read his play has improved since being sent down to the ECHL. If he could show he can play in the NHL it would be a big boost to the farm, showing he can be a decent scoring option on wing.

I'm not to worried about Chewy getting called up or not, I dont see much point in it to be honest, we know what he is capable of, we know he should be on the team now, so next year he definetly will be. So not much point using one of the call ups on him. Same with Downie to a lesser extent.

[RSchmitz]

Is that because of a pre-disposed bias against Downie?

He has a prior history. What were you expecting?


As for giving him the benefit of the doubt. Cromag said that Downie blatantly slashed an official and got a game misconduct. blatantly.That doesn't leave room for judgment or perspective errors. Even though there turned out to be one.

[CTLightning26]

He has a prior history. What were you expecting?


As for giving him the benefit of the doubt. Cromag said that Downie blatantly slashed an official and got a game misconduct. blatantly.That doesn't leave room for judgment or perspective errors. Even though there turned out to be one.

i dont think cromag was there...

[RSchmitz]

No video has been posted, there isn't much choice but to go on word of mouth.

[CTLightning26]

No video has been posted, there isn't much choice but to go on word of mouth.

but we've heard both sides so far.
we'll find out after the league analyzes it tommorrow

[backstop]

One thing is for sure: someone is lying through their teeth. There's no imaginable way incidental contact could be confused with a baseball-style windup.

[backstop]

An update today from the Hershey radio guy that was quoted by DC etc.

. . . I've gotten a ton of e-mail asking about video of Saturday's Steve Downie slash on linesman Mike Hamilton. I don't have it myself, I've only seen it at Giant Center. The AHL and spokesman Jason Chaimovitch told multiple news sources Sunday that the league will review the incident, but that it could be Tuesday before any verdict is handed down. In the meantime, the story (with my account differing quite a bit from Norfolk GM Mike Butters) is in the Tampa Bay papers today.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/2009/03/ahl-suspends-do.html

Damien Cristodero called me about what I wrote yesterday and my account of what I saw for his article today, and he obviously excerpted what I wrote about it. I want to say again that I like Norfolk GM Mike Butters tremendously, and have gotten to know him quite a bit this season. It's not my place to challenge what an AHL general manager says, and I have to admit I'm not real comfortable doing so. But a couple of things he says here, even beyond the actual Downie slash, just don't hold up under scrutiny, and the officiating crew has been maligned a bit here unjustly. My job as a broadcaster (and now in the modern age as a blogger) is to merely tell the story as I see it in front of me. No more, no less. From my vantage point, the three officials did their job Saturday night, and one of them took a pretty serious slash from a player with a history of violence.

From Butters:

"He added that even if Downie's stick hit Hamilton's skate (and Butters said that after watching the video "70 times in slow motion, stop fame" he still is not sure that happened), it was unintentional."

Mike Hamilton was treated by Bears trainer Dan Stuck after the game, nothing overly serious, but the reason I got to talk to Hamilton, Jameel Chaudry and Jeff Smith after the game was they were still in the building long after I got off the air. It did happen, and he got hit higher than the skate. An important point when you take into consideration that it's tough to win a draw when your stick is that high.

Again from Butters:

"The linesman was really not even part of this," Butters said. "The centerman across from (Downie) was yapping at him. "(Downie) went to swipe at the stick. He swung in a downward motion and hit the puck. The intent was there to hit the puck. He may or may not have clipped the official's skate."

No one sitting in the press box can know exactly what happened or if something was said on the draw, but video evidence doesn't support this claim. Even without audio, the video clearly shows that Andrew Joudrey wasn't even at the face-off dot until the last possible moment, and in the frames leading up to the draw, wasn't even looking at Downie. Downie wasn't the least bit animated toward Joudrey, the linesman or anyone else. It is honestly to me one of the most chilling parts of the tape when you watch it; the lack of any emotion on the part of Downie before he slashed into Hamilton. If the implication is that this was a verbal squabble that got out of hand at center ice, I'm certain the video shows that didn't happen. I don't think it's very fair to Mike Hamilton to imply he may not have even been hit. Everyone in the building, even if they didn't see the incident, certainly saw the linesman staggering to stay on his skates immediately afterward.

Regardless of anything else that is said between now and when the AHL makes a ruling on the incident, I'm not going to say anything else about this here on the blog. All I really wanted to do yesterday was give my account of what I saw as a witness to the incident, and it is not my job nor am I qualified to render official judgment on what happened. The American Hockey League, I have no doubt, will do a thorough job in talking to all parties and making a judgement. AHL linesman Bob Goodman joined us on the air after the first period yesterday to discuss the process of how incidents get reviewed, and much of what will happen is already underway. Should the video surface, I will do my best to pass that along to you, but in the meantime, we will see what happens in the next day or two. I've been pretty animated on this subject, but it's just because I feel the safety and well being of those on the ice should be paramount, and on Saturday night, that safety was compromised.

[RSchmitz]

but we've heard both sides so far.
we'll find out after the league analyzes it tommorrow

Now we have. I'm simply stating, that most of the initial reactions here were based off of what Cromag said, and were before Butters comments.

[timothy]

Two radically different stories indeed.

[CTLightning26]

Hershey announcer seems pretty sure of himself.
i hope he's just mistaken and some of the things he didn't see make the difference.

[Coldrice]

Still no word yet?

[timothy]

Szczechura made the comment to Tampa media today that he didn't think Downie's action was intentional.

[spork]

I don't think they've completed the process yet. This is his second "abuse of officials" this season, although the first one was not "physical".

[backstop]

So... the day has passed and still no news. This is like a mystery novel to me now, I want to know who is telling the truth in all this. I think it was Colonel Mustard in the Study with the hockey stick.

[backstop]

AHL announced a handful of suspensions today. Downie wasn't on the list. No news... what the hell is going on here?

[timothy]

AHL announced a handful of suspensions today. Downie wasn't on the list. No news... what the hell is going on here?

IMO. The delay is either very good or very bad. IMO they are either discussing whether or not it is an issue at all, or they are discussing whether or not to ban Downie from hockey. ;)

[backstop]

That makes sense to me. I hope we'll get to see some video somewhere along the line here.

[timothy]

That makes sense to me. I hope we'll get to see some video somewhere along the line here.

I'm sure the league doesn't want it released until they've made their decision.

[backstop]

From AHL website:

AHL suspends Norfolk's Downie
03/05/2009 9:45 AM
SPRINGFIELD, Mass. … The American Hockey League today announced that Norfolk Admirals right wing Steve Downie has been suspended for twenty (20) regular-season games as a result of his actions in a game at Hershey on Feb. 28.

At the 19:48 mark of the third period, Downie was assessed a game misconduct under the provisions of AHL Rule 41.2 for deliberately striking an official with his stick.

Downie has already served three games of the suspension. He is scheduled to be eligible to return to the Norfolk lineup on Apr. 11.

[Randy]

He can return to play for the ADs on April 11. April 11 is the last game of the season for us. My advice is call him up to Tampa. Ramo spent his 6 games with you while on suspension, so let Downie spend his 20 with you as well. It's not like you're getting stuck. He showed some promise up there last time.

[backstop]

Pretty safe bet that NHL would enforce the AHL's suspension.

This kills me, Downie was one of the lone bright spots for me this season.

[spork]

The impression I got was that the video was inconclusive so the account given by the officiating team stood and the supplementary discipline was therefore called for. His reputation certainly didn't help out.

Kind of dissapointed that this happened. If indeed he slashed the ref, then of course he deserves the punishment. I initially was not happy when he was acquired but I think his play and generally positive conduct has changed my mind since then...I liked the story of someone being given a second chance and making the most of it.

[chad]

NF appealing the suspension.

[Randy]

They have to do this. Plus, what is there to lose? If the suspension stays in place, Downie can come back the last game of the season for us. For those not in the know, we aren't going to the playoffs either.

[The Great Zo]

At long last -- a video has surfaced. I'm hosting it myself, so let me know if you have problems accessing it.

http://fiveninety.dyndns.org/~thegreatzo/downie.wmv -- 6.96 MB
Starts up with the play leading to the goal being awarded. The incident is at 0:56. No audio.

[chad]

Are you @*$#*@*!! kidding me?

That's a reputation suspension. Complete garbage.

[the_narrow_way]

W-T-F? Downie was swiping at the puck. Plain as day. How in the hell was that considered intentional? It didn't look like his stick did more than graze the official. It looked like Downie was caught off-guard by the puck drop and took an inaccurate swipe at the puck. You can even see how off-balance he was because of it.

What a complete f'in joke.

[Coldrice]

Total Bullshit!!

[WaiverWire]

Did I not just see a frustrated player take a good wack at the puck as it was dropped and in the follow through he hit the official?

Should he had been calmer and not put his frustration out on the puck during the face off.....tes. But I cannot see how they can say this is a deliberate attempt to strike the offical.

[CTLightning26]

Don't think you can say it is intentional to hit the ref.
Reckless? Yes. I think a few games for being reckless. But 20?
And for the fricken league to not let him have his day in court, not interviewing him, is ridiculous.

[chad]

I agree, WW... he took a sloppy swipe at it - but I didn't see any beef between Downie and the linesman before the swipe. It did not look deliberate at all.

What a joke.

[Avery86]

I can't wait to see the decision on the Norfolk appeal.

A joke, indeed. I literally scoffed when I saw the incident in question. 20 games for THAT? What about when a referee accidentally gets checked during the course of play? Should that be a 20 game suspension?

Reputation call, definitely.

[Hoek]

Definitely a bit reckless, but I agree, not intentional and definitely nothing like the total bullshit described by the Hershey guy. Man that guy is completely full of shit. I can understand how all the Admirals questioned saw it quite differently.

[Sotnos]

At long last -- a video has surfaced. I'm hosting it myself, so let me know if you have problems accessing it.

http://fiveninety.dyndns.org/~thegreatzo/downie.wmv -- 6.96 MB
Starts up with the play leading to the goal being awarded. The incident is at 0:56. No audio.First of all, thank you for doing this!

Don't think you can say it is intentional to hit the ref.
Reckless? Yes. I think a few games for being reckless. But 20?
I agree with a few others here, definitely reckless, but if that is a "baseball like swing with a full windup"...I don't think that Hershey broadcaster has seen much baseball.

[astro]

Sorry Downie for calling you a punk. It seemed to me that it was accidental. Like others have said, it was reckless, but not intentional.

[backstop]

At long last -- a video has surfaced. I'm hosting it myself, so let me know if you have problems accessing it.

Thank you for posting this.


As others have said... reckless? yes. "Baseball swing wind up and try to kill ref"? no way.

[pete]

Maybe the AHL is assuming Downie was trying to shoot the puck at the linesman in frustration/retaliation for that goal being awarded?

[LilJimmyNorton]

Good to see that horrible officiating isn't just the property of the NHL. My ass that was intentional. Bring Downie back up, don't give a damn about the "unwritten" agreement to honor suspensions.

[Donnie D]

REALLY? I watched the video before I read your comments and believe that he's lucky it was only for 20 games.

The league obvously saw it like you all did. He lost control, took a wild swing and endangered an official. Much like the R2 boarding of a player on an icing call where he took a hit on a player that was unnecessary and could potentially injure a player, they made a call. Same here, he was out of control and could have easily injured an official. The league has to make a stand on this one for their officials and take strong action. They can't let this become the norm, no matter how pissed off he was.

Had they thought it was intentional, they would have given him at least a year.

[RSchmitz]

REALLY? I watched the video before I read your comments and believe that he's lucky it was only for 20 games.

The league obvously saw it like you all did. He lost control, took a wild swing and endangered an official. Much like the R2 boarding of a player on an icing call where he took a hit on a player that was unnecessary and could potentially injure a player, they made a call. Same here, he was out of control and could have easily injured an official. The league has to make a stand on this one for their officials and take strong action. They can't let this become the norm, no matter how pissed off he was.

Had they thought it was intentional, they would have given him at least a year.

Intentionally abusing an official is 20 games, not a year. I see what your saying, but expecting somebody not to get hot headed in a physical game like hockey is unrealistic. There has to be premeditation, or else what your suggesting is for the league to suspend every player that acts erratic. Breaking sticks on goal posts, for instance, isn't against the rules, but could be considered dangerous. Swinging wildly at pucks could be considered erratic(Hossa hitting Berard in the face with his stick), but doesn't deserve a suspension. Yes, there are clear distinctions in each case, but unless their is a clear cut rule, its left entirely up to interpretation and your completely at the mercy of a whim from the disciplinarian. That is why people are saying that it is a "name recognition" suspension.

The video isn't perfect, the angle isn't perfect, so he very well could have deserved 20 games for purposefully firing the puck into the official. The problem is that Downie didn't have a say, and as far as I know there was no official explanation of the suspension. In a case like this, that is unacceptable IMO.

[Avery86]

The problem is that Downie didn't have a say, and as far as I know there was no official explanation of the suspension. In a case like this, that is unacceptable IMO.

Hopefully more comes out after the appeal process is completed.

[Randy]

Downie's suspension was upheld by the AHL. No shocker since the AHL official who suspended him also heard the appeal.

http://theahl.com/headlines/index.html?article_id=9675

[Hoek]

Downie's suspension was upheld by the AHL. No shocker since the AHL official who suspended him also heard the appeal.

http://theahl.com/headlines/index.html?article_id=9675

:bs: :bullshit: :bs:

[gwf82]

Downie's suspension was upheld by the AHL. No shocker since the AHL official who suspended him also heard the appeal.

http://theahl.com/headlines/index.html?article_id=9675

The official that suspended him heard the appeal? That's about odd.

[CTLightning26]

REALLY? I watched the video before I read your comments and believe that he's lucky it was only for 20 games.

The league obvously saw it like you all did. He lost control, took a wild swing and endangered an official. Much like the R2 boarding of a player on an icing call where he took a hit on a player that was unnecessary and could potentially injure a player, they made a call. Same here, he was out of control and could have easily injured an official. The league has to make a stand on this one for their officials and take strong action. They can't let this become the norm, no matter how pissed off he was.

Had they thought it was intentional, they would have given him at least a year.

Are you blind?

[CTLightning26]

The official that suspended him heard the appeal? That's about odd.

what a joke.
Tell us why you are so sure it was intentional AHL?....Thats what i want to hear from you fricken bozos...

[Donnie D]

Are you blind?

Evidently not, since I apparently saw it the same way the league did. Perhaps you need to take off your homer glasses and look at it objectively.

[CTLightning26]

Evidently not, since I apparently saw it the same way the league did. Perhaps you need to take off your homer glasses and look at it objectively.

I did and I can't tell for sure if he did it on purpose. My guess is he was mad, a little reckless, but he wasn't planning on slashing the ref in the leg. He was trying to slap the puck to boards because he was mad.
IMO, you can't suspend someone that long if you THINK he did it on purpose.
I think, as most leagues do, the AHL is defending their officials' poor decisions to the end..Because they will look bad if they overturn a decision..It doesn't surprise me
One thing you can say is Rumble should have got him off the ice if he could see he was mad.

[timothy]

Via EE, statement from Lawton:


“Although we disagree with Steve Downie’s original suspension and the denial of his appeal, we accept and respect the decisions of the American Hockey League,” Lawton said. “Additionally, we thank the Board of Governors for hearing the appeal and giving the player a voice in the proceedings. Where Steve is concerned, we think he is a player with a bright future and a quality person. We look forward to his remaining a part of the Lightning organization and developing into a consistent NHL player.’’

[Donnie D]

I did and I can't tell for sure if he did it on purpose. My guess is he was mad, a little reckless, but he wasn't planning on slashing the ref in the leg. He was trying to slap the puck to boards because he was mad.
IMO, you can't suspend someone that long if you THINK he did it on purpose.
I think, as most leagues do, the AHL is defending their officials' poor decisions to the end..Because they will look bad if they overturn a decision..It doesn't surprise me
One thing you can say is Rumble should have got him off the ice if he could see he was mad.

I don't know what was in his head (if anything). I do know that he was out of control, acted recklessly, took a wild swing and that action endangered an official. It wasn't the first time he has been out of control, so I'm sure his reputation factored into the punishment.

The league cannot allow someone to act like an idiot with a stick around their officials and it doesn't matter whether he intended to do it or not, he swung his stick in a way that could have unnecessarily slashed the official. He has to be under control and if he can't be under control, he needs to be taught a lession. If you can get 23 games for bumping an official, wasn't that what hapened in the NHL, 20 games for swinging near an official isn't out of line.

What he did merits a suspension - and a rather lengthy one at that.

As I said, if he really intended to injure an official, the punishment should have been longer than 20 games. You just can't ever allow someone to harm an official - no matter how pissed off you are at them.

And yes, Rumble should never have let this occur.

[WaiverWire]

I don't know what was in his head (if anything). I do know that he was out of control, acted recklessly, took a wild swing and that action endangered an official. It wasn't the first time he has been out of control, so I'm sure his reputation factored into the punishment.

The league cannot allow someone to act like an idiot with a stick around their officials and it doesn't matter whether he intended to do it or not, he swung his stick in a way that could have unnecessarily slashed the official. He has to be under control and if he can't be under control, he needs to be taught a lession. If you can get 23 games for bumping an official, wasn't that what hapened in the NHL, 20 games for swinging near an official isn't out of line.

What he did merits a suspension - and a rather lengthy one at that.

As I said, if he really intended to injure an official, the punishment should have been longer than 20 games. You just can't ever allow someone to harm an official - no matter how pissed off you are at them.

And yes, Rumble should never have let this occur.

I do not think this was intentional, but he has been going through anger management and it looks like maybe he needs more. The act was reckless to say the least and did hurt someone. Maybe he will think twice before he acts out his frustrations.

[Thunderchief]

and it doesn't matter whether he intended to do it or not, he swung his stick in a way that could have unnecessarily slashed the official.

I am not in agreement with possibly ending someone's career when it doesn't matter what they intended for something that "could" have unnecessarily resulted in an event.

If you drive a car I'll bet you fall into that category at a minimum of once a day and should using those standards have your license revoked for at least four months especially if you make your living by driving or must drive to get to your job.

In my opinion that is the kind of "reasoning" that will continue to destroy hockey. Any contact on the ice with any part of your body or equipment "could" cause severe injury and therefore "should" result in a lifetime suspension.

[WaiverWire]

TC I do not think it is an issue of if he meant to do it or not. The issue is he has had problems with the league in the past with anger management, and it is very clear he once again let his anger take control.

[Avery86]

TC I do not think it is an issue of if he meant to do it or not. The issue is he has had problems with the league in the past with anger management, and it is very clear he once again let his anger take control.

So the response is to suspend him for 20 games (which is the suspension level for something he didn't do) based mostly on past transgressions?

Yep. Still shitty.

If they wanted to do something constructive about his "anger" issues, suspend him for a few games (ie: not 20 freakin' games) and have him take some anger management courses. Something constructive instead of just forcing him to sit out for 20 games and stew.

[Randy]

I don't think Downie did it intentionally. But he was certainly negligent with how he used his stick. A suspension was called for, but I agree, not for 20 games. Somewhere between 5 to 10 would have been fair.

[Donnie D]

If you drive a car I'll bet you fall into that category at a minimum of once a day and should using those standards have your license revoked for at least four months especially if you make your living by driving or must drive to get to your job.

Uh, no. When I am driving and something makes me angry, I don't lose control and drive my car in an irresponsible manner such that I put other drivers or pedestrians at risk. That's called road rage and if you ended up in an accident because of it, you would probably result in you losing your license for longer than 4 months.

Let's try it this way. You and your wife go to a bar and each have a bottle of beer. The little woman says something that gets you angry and you pick up the bottle of beer and throw it. But instead of hitting the wall as you intended, you hit someone in the head and injure them.

As much as you may protest that you were just trying to hit the wall because you were angry, you are still spending the night in the county jail and paying for the medical bills.

Had Downie been in the faceoff circle, behaving himself and accidently hit the official, it wouldn't have been a big deal. But he was out of control, used his stick in an irresponsible way and could have injured someone.

Now do you understand?

[Thunderchief]

Uh, no. When I am driving and something makes me angry, I don't lose control and drive my car in an irresponsible manner such that I put other drivers or pedestrians at risk. That's called road rage and if you ended up in an accident because of it, you would probably result in you losing your license for longer than 4 months.

Let's try it this way. You and your wife go to a bar and each have a bottle of beer. The little woman says something that gets you angry and you pick up the bottle of beer and throw it. But instead of hitting the wall as you intended, you hit someone in the head and injure them.

As much as you may protest that you were just trying to hit the wall because you were angry, you are still spending the night in the county jail and paying for the medical bills.

Had Downie been in the faceoff circle, behaving himself and accidently hit the official, it wouldn't have been a big deal. But he was out of control, used his stick in an irresponsible way and could have injured someone.

Now do you understand?

I appreciate your taking the time to explain all this to me.

Congratulations, while driving, angry or not, you have never done anything that "could" have caused an accident (changed lanes without signaling for instance).

I would suggest you stop throwing beer bottles in bars, that "could" get you in trouble.

[Thunderchief]

As I look back on this, it appears to be taking a unintended personal turn. I did not wish that to happen, I meant it to be a generic "you". I will therefore take responsibility for that and discontinue commenting on people's behavior.

I do disagree with the severity of the suspension. This is compounded by the total lack of consistency in handling these situations.

[backstop]

Thunderchief, this was absolutely a reputation suspension... I don't think anyone would argue with you about that.

The other thing that exacerbated the situation that doesn't really fit with your metaphor is that Downie hit an official, not just a player standing there.

I agree that the suspension was too harsh but I do think that the players have some responsibility for what they are doing with their sticks, especially if it is negligence motivated by anger (which is often very difficult to differentiate from regular old 'meant to do it'). Based on the video we saw, I think 5 games would have been more appropriate, although I would like to have seen a better angle/closer up because I'm not even sure that it is bad enough for that.

[Donnie D]

I would suggest you stop throwing beer bottles in bars, that "could" get you in trouble.

I'm really trying, but you know how women can .... (I better stop in case the wife ever reads this):D

I didn't take it personally. I'm one of those folks who, when they disagree with someone, nearly always takes it as an issue disagreement not personal. Sorry if it came off that way.

[gwf82]

Ha Bolts don't go first class...Steve is currently 3 rows ahead of me on the way to CLT from TPA amused me a bit (probably no one else will enjoy that but me LOL)

[Coldrice]

CBA states that player must ride in economy, if traveling on their own. Team still foots the bill.

[gwf82]

CBA states that player must ride in economy, if traveling on their own. Team still foots the bill.

Wasnt trying to state that they were being cheap...just that the young guys probably were the ones riding in the back with us normal folk. Honestly didnt realize they had to travel back there if alone, reading the CBA never wouldve been something I'd do on my own free time, thats why you guys are there to inform me :) I actually missed upgrade due to being checked in last minute for the flight and was just amused that he didnt looked thrilled to sit next to the people he was. The guy next to him though wasnt as tall as the guy next to me...felt bad for that guy as he was about 6'5" and in the middle seat!

[Coldrice]

Didn't mean to quote the CBA as the organization's cheap was your implication... it's just either they pay out of pocket and no reimbursement for 1st class or ride economy and either the team pays upfront or reimburses the player.

I can't tell you how many players I've sat next to (Football, Hockey, Baseball) both in coach and first class when I traveled all over. The biggest asshole was Matt Leinart. The 2 most interesting one's weren't players at all. Both ironically to and from Pensacola. One flight up, I was on an Embraer (Glorified stretched Lear jet with zero amenities and leg room) with Paul "The Big Show" Wight... that was interesting to say the least. Imagine 7' 2" going into a doorway that's only 5' 10"! They had to put him in back just so he could stretch his legs out over the seats and had to lift them when somebody went to the bathroom. After that first person went, and the look Big Show gave him, everyone else pretty much just "held it" till we got to P-Cola. Too funny!

The other was Gov. Crist, while he was campaigning. I offered him my seat as I was up front, 1st row (same type plane) and he said "Thank you, but I don't think my ontourage would appreciate it" and he gestured to like 6 dudes in suits. Man knows how to roll!!! Anyway, we talked the whole flight about the election and so on. Down to Earth dude.

[Hoek]

I remember that being a big deal with Beckham coming to MLS as all players have to fly coach and of course with the commotion he'd bring I think they had to make some sort of compromise.

[gwf82]

No worries, I had just re-read what I wrote and saw how it came off as me trying to take a shot at the team when it wasnt my intention. Sent it from my phone on the plane so it had to be quick and it came off looking bad I thought :)

He's the first I've been on with in coach class that I've noticed at least. Pretty much everytime I'm in first class now someone is up there as from TPA to CLT is a big flight on US Air. Recently have been on with a few Bucs and also sat next to Bruce Smith on the Friday before the Super Bowl. He was in Tampa for the Super Bowl/Hall Of Fame hoopla but went home before as he didnt want to stay for the game. That guys hands were bigger than my head!

Leinart a jackass eh? Somehow I dont think you'd be the only one to say that about him from most reports :)

[Coldrice]

Sent it from my phone on the plane so it had to be quick...

Been there, I feel ya!

Leinart a jackass eh? Somehow I dont think you'd be the only one to say that about him from most reports :)

Made this big production about there not being any pillows... how everyone in first class gobbled them up. He kept just going on and on and on... Finally this older lady gave him her's and you'd think he'd be appreciative. Nope. Took it and without a word, propped it up against his window, turned out his light and that was it.